Corbyn / BBC declare social class of employees?

On an even playing field, no-one would know what anyone's "class" was, or whether their grandfather was called Scargill (add 5 points) or Westminster (deduct 10 points) or even Windsor (get out the tar and feathers).

Trisher, there never will be , I don’t mean we shouldn’t want the best for every child , the child of a doctor will have more financial support than the child of a labourer . But they can all be given encouragement to have goals to work to/for , not this ‘life isn’t fair’ and ‘you will never achieve what you hope for because of who you are’

Like your post Elegran

trisher do you have an answer?

" Jon Snow is not ' the daddy ' of Dan Snow so why do you accuse him of nepotism. What information do you have to accuse him of nepotism?"

Do you have any information to substantiate your accusation of nepotism?
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trisher Sat 25-Aug-18 14:29:23.

" Except no farmer or miner ever changed a law or told others how to live."

What century do you come from? You have obviously little knowledge of the background of many MP's on either side of political divide.


Have you never heard of Patrick McLoughlin,

Ahemmmm - the literal meaning of nepotisn is "nephewism".

Hmmm

Interesting Elegran

I thought it depends on whether you take the meaning from The Tirukkural which if I am not mistaken does not say 'nephews' but related to the wider ' friends and family ' as we think of it now. Or later in history from the middle ages and the Catholic practice of nepotism which was related to nephews.

Or am I muddle up?

Miners contributing to lawmaking:-

Mick Welsh obituary - Miner and politician who fought for greater safety in Britain's pits

Ian Lavery " a leading voice on the Left of the Labour Party,"

Dennis Edward Skinner Chairman of the Labour Party for one year from 1988–89 "and served as a member of Labour's National Executive Committee, with brief breaks, for thirty years. He is known for his left-wing views and is considered by some to have an acerbic wit. He is a member of the Socialist Campaign Group of Labour MPs."

Geoffrey Lofthouse began as a miner, climbed the political ladder as an NUM official and also became a colliery manager. "He served eventfully in local government before being elected to Parliament. Possibly Lofthouse's great achievement was, appropriately, for workers in the coal industry when he eventually secured a compensation scheme for miners affected by industrial disease."

Jim Hood started his career as a mining engineer

Harry Harpham a coal miner at Clipstone Colliery, in Nottinghamshire

Albert Stanley first worked at Stirchley Coal and Iron Company Colliery alongside his father, After being seriously injured in a mine accident when he was nineteen, Albert gave up his work as a miner and a year later in 1884, he was elected agent for the Cannock miners.

Jennie Lee from coalminer's daughter to trailblazing MP

Sir David Hamilton worked as a miner at Monktonhall Colliery for nearly 20 years

Found in seven pages of Google search for "miner MP" Many (but not all) of these names were unfamiliar to me, all I know about those is what I have copied hastily here on reading that miners do not make laws. I have included links for anyone who wishes to read more.

POGS the latin word "nepos" means a nephew. A lot of the "nephews" of outwardly celibate and childless mediaeval popes owed the meteoric rise in their careers to the influence of their "uncles" so the meaning of nepotism widened to include other relationships (particularly father/son ones but also family generally)

But they were then politicians and not miners. Of course there are miners who became politicians. You forgot Thomas Burt by the way one of the first. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Burt
These are of course names from the past and perhaps serve to illustrate that social mobility was easier then than now. Whiich is interesting to say the least. Any number of polticians particularly in the Labour party had other jobs before they entered Parliament. Most MPs don't any longer. Personally I think it is a loss.

May I add Ny Bevan to your list Elegran

Elegran

Thank you , always a pleasure to interact with you.

I did mention" the Catholic practice of nepotism which was related to nephews.". The Thirukural on recruitment is very interesting too.

[Peaceemoticon]

Dennis Skinner , a name from the past trisher?

anniebach It really is quite insulting to say that anyone who criticises a system that entrenches and perpetuates unequal access to higher education and high office has a "chip on their shoulder". It suggests that such views are not genuinely held but only reflect personal resentment and envy.

A couple or so years ago you too refuted the accusation that those (such as yourself at that time) who criticised the wealth of the royal family had a personal axe to grind. It seems that you expect your concerns to be treated as altruistic, whereas others who express similar concerns are merely envious.

I have seen at first hand how students from universities outside of Oxbridge and St Andrews are viewed in a large city law firm. A partner for whom I worked disdainfully, and without embarassment, told me he rejected all trainee solicitor applicants unless they had attended such universities. Yet he, with his supposedly superior Oxbridge education, was the person who was partially, if not wholly, responsible for a major crisis in the firm which cost hundreds of thousands of people, including all the partners and employees in our firm, a significant depreciation in their pension funds.

He is 86 Anniebach and was first elected a long time ago. He wouldn't stand a chance now and some would say he should retire.

One of the most interesting things is to walk around the Inns of Court and read the names on the boards. It is fascinating to see who shared chambers with others.

trisher, he is a MP so not from the past, even if his politics are

POGS I assumed that you too meant the popes' "nephews". I don't know the Tamil writings you mention, but they sound interesting, going by what I can see on the net. They aare by a very "ordinary" man, too I am looking in the Kindle store for an English translation. Is there a good one that you can recommend?

Isn't it funny how arguments are conducted on GN. The main idea being to distract or derail a thread when actually you can't disprove or really disagree with it. So political nepotism has digressed into a "miner can be an MP" which I don't think anyone has argued they can't. The point is that with miners and most other jobs in production having families working together does not mean they exert undue influence, whereas having a political class who are so deeply woven and interconnected can, and perhaps does, lead to government which is insular and uninformed.

No, there is no "idea to distract or derail the thread" That would imply that posters who go slightly off the point that you want to make are trying deliberately to silence you. and for some sinister reason of their own don't wish state secrets revealed.

I can't vouch for any other poster's connection with any hush-hush organisation going round the forums stifling free thought, of course, but if I had any real motive for posting about ex-miner MPs it was to "thicken up" the background info behind the argument.

There is not a political class trisher, some politicians have parents and grandparents who are/were politicians . Sebastian Corbyn has gone into politics which I think is quite usual It happens in most professions, some sons/daughters of doctors become doctors, some sons/daughters of actors become actors, sons/daughters of farmers become farmers, in this town there are three generations of funeral directors.

Of course there's a political class Annie and it is composed of all parties. Just look at the earlier link and the ties between the Callaghans the Jays and the Bottomleys.

Trisher, many marry into political families because it’s the circle they mix in, as I said before, farmers are the same. Do you want a law that no politician must marry another politician or into a political family ? Should the Benn family be excluded from politics ?

Dumfries Academy: So yes its Alumni are great and a real example of the best of the comprehensive system

I presume that was meant as a joke trisher as all but a couple of the alumni of Dumfries Academy (including Neil Oliver) attended there well before it became a comprehensive school in 1985 -and I don't think the comprehensive system had been thought of in the 18th and early 19th century.

Nice try though!
And I hope it will continue to nurture the talents of its present-day students.

Threads meander and there would not seem to be a deliberate attempt to derail or distract from the point. It has wandered away from the BBC into a general discussion about 'social class' and now nepotism - or, as some would call it, family tradition.

Perhaps JC got his passion for politics from his parents although they were not politicians as such.

Corbyns parents were certaintly politically active, the first Mrs Corbyn was a labour councillor in the same council as Corbyn. One of their sons is John MacDonalds Chief of Staff, three generations involved in politics , it happens .

But they were then politicians and not miners
Trisher when someone enters politics from another occupation or profession, and most people probably agree it’s a good thing if they have had experience working outside politics, they don’t suddenly cast off half their identity.
I read today that Dr Phil Hammond has been selected to run against Jacob Rees-Mogg at the next election. If he’s successful, he won’t suddenly stop being a doctor and cast all those years of medicine aside. He and everyone else will still think of him as a doctor.

So I disagree with you that miners cannot and never have made laws.