Frank Field

Corbyn , has no principles

Well there you have it. Someone who in the past has declared they have "never slagged off Corbyn" doing it again.
Would I say Frank Field has no principles? Of course I wouldn't. Would I say he is mistaken to resign and wonder why he has chosen this moment? Yes I would. Would I wonder if his resignation was timed to keep the disagreements in the Labour Party in the news? Well I might. Things had gone quiet hadn't they.

I believe that there are a number of Labour MPs which includes such members as Frank Field and Margret Hodge that have never accepted that the Labour Party has changed drastically in its policies and Leadership by democratic means. That means was brought about by the grassroots of the party who for so many years in the Blair/Brown era were wholly ignored by that executive.

As stated, a number of Labour MPs have never accepted that democracy, preferring instead to retain a party that did nothing to prevent zero hours contracts, the gig economy, the housing crisis along with much else. Those MPs now try at every opportunity to destabilise the parliamentary party by any means possible including racism by way of extending the antisemitism argument to its very limits.

By example to the above, I would ask why Frank Field has brought his personal position to the fore a few days before parliament is due to reassemble when he has had all the recess period to bring forward the matter. We also have witnessed Margaret Hodge comparing her situation in the Labour Party to that of the Jews in 1930s Germany waiting for the Third Reich henchmen to take them away.

The above I find totally despicable especially in the case of Margaret Hodge who deserves to be expelled from the party regarding that statement alone. Others who cannot accept the democratic changes that have taken place in the party should also be expelled or resign whether they be at executive level or the very few holding the above views in the grassroots.

I repeat. I do not ‘slag off’ anyone , i criticise anyone who I believe to be a hypocrite , Corbyn is a hypocrite therefore I critcise the man.

It is "slagging off" Annie to make untrue statements purely because you dislike someone. I hated Tony Blair for the harm he did and the illegal war he led the country into. I would never say he had no principles, he had some but they were often overruled by self interest and personal advancement.

Democracy ? Throw out anyone who disagrees? Corbyn voted time and time again against the party line, he was never considered for de selection, that was democracy

Right Trisher, what lies have a posted?

He was never considered for deselection Annie because he is a popular MP (possibly because he is a man of principle) and losing him might have meant losing the seat.

Who was de selected in the past trisher, apart from S O Davies ?

The Labour Party always accepted the right for MP’s to speak out against the leadership , that was democracy

Annie simply because there was a more effective whip in the past (and Alistair Campbell to back them) doesn't mean there was no disagreement only more effective ways of keeping it quiet. Perhaps what you should be celebrating is the fact that those who disagree with the leadership are able to voice that disagreement and are not intimidated.

Like Frank Field ?

Yes like Frank Field. Obviously no one has threatened him or stopped him from speaking out. Many MPs were threatened and many were disciplined under Tony Blair. Clare Short being a real example.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/18/momentum-leader-calls-deselection-mps-who-voted-with-tories-brexit-trade-bill

Frank Field has always been one of the most involved MPs in Birkenhead he has always stood up for the worst off of his constituants its a pity other members of the party don't get as involved as he does.

Grandad

" Those MPs now try at every opportunity to destabilise the parliamentary party by any means possible including racism by way of extending the antisemitism argument to its very limits. "

More denial of the voices from within the Labour Party , Labour MP's, Labour councillors that have spoke of antisemitism from within their own party/Momentum and other affiliated organisations pro Corbyn the man not the wider Labour Party.
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" I would ask why Frank Field has brought his personal position to the fore a few days before parliament is due to reassemble when he has had all the recess period to bring forward the matter."

Frank Field has not 'just ' brought his position to the fore, he has spoken of it for over 2 years.. I presume his conscience told him not to be a hypocrite and return to the back benches under the present leadership and it's extended inner circle outside of the PLP. Or perhaps he is awaiting the Labour Party under Corbyn/Momentum to remove him from the party he has served for so many years and stand as an Independent MP. Will he? Or will he like many MP's have had a gut full of the division within the Party and retire from the ever increasing nastiness of the regurgitated 1980's style of politics he once fought at that time too.
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" The above I find totally despicable especially in the case of Margaret Hodge who deserves to be expelled from the party regarding that statement alone. Others who cannot accept the democratic changes that have taken place in the party should also be expelled or resign whether they be at executive level or the very few holding the above views in the grassroots."

Maybe others with a different opinion could say they too would like to see resignations whether they be at executive level or indeed they be at the very top of the Labour Party.

Each to his own as they say.

Perhaps if Frank Field had stayed in touch with the current democratic thinking of his Constituency Party, he would not now be in danger of being deselected.

Also, a Jewish Labour group in that constituency have stated that they have never felt intimidated from attending meetings or while actually at those meetings.

So much for Frank Fields current "knowledge and feelings" of the Constituency he has represented for so long. Perhaps, it is time for him to go on the grounds of being out of touch with current thinking, policies and protocol in the Birkenhead constituency party.

I also note that no one has come from the Labour party to take Margret Hodge away as of yet despite her well-publicised fears of such action.

And perhaps they should be deselected. Just think had they not voted with the government there could have been a vote of "no confidence" and then we might be looking at a general election with Corbyn once again leading the party and, should he have lost again. he would probably have been replaced, which would have pleased all you Corbyn bashers. So arguably you have those 4 to blame. (Of course I think Labour would have won!)

I could not agree more trisher with your above post. Those Labour MPs who voted with the Conservatives on that night should be expelled.

Keeping this government in power is something that has to be regarded as a serious crime. It is one thing to vote with your conscience when nothing is at stake, but to do so when a defeat is possible is something many will not forgive. If they are not deselected they could well lose their seat.

Those labour MP’s voted for what they believe in, just as Corbyn did 428 times

Hypocrisy pure b---y hypocrisy to think it is OK for Corbyn to vote against his own party out of conscience and keeping to his principles but for others it's right for deselection.

If an MP votes against his party then he aligns with the opposition and that applies to Corbyn too.

trisher

" Keeping this government in power is something that has to be regarded as a serious crime. It is one thing to vote with your conscience when nothing is at stake, but to do so when a defeat is possible is something many will not forgive. If they are not deselected they could well lose their seat. "

Yet when it comes to Tory MP's who voted against their government recently , which could have led to the government falling or a vote of confidence in their Leader you and others applauded their action and voting with their conscience was respected.

Talk about flip flopping to suit the topic of the day.

Trisher, you realy do believe that voting with your conscience is something to do at times but not always?

I realy am shocked ,

“To Thine Own Self Be True, For It Must Follow As Night Follows Day, Than Canst Not Be False To Any man”

I so believe this.

This thread is about Frank Field and I've said my bit about his decision.
I tried and failed to sit on my hands in response to the poster who called Margaret Hodge "despicable". She's been accused of exploiting the holocaust for her own political ends. Offensive doesn't begin to describe those comments. My ancestors were peasants working the land until agricultural work dried up. They gradually moved from the south east to the north west and Yorkshire to work in the mills and the mines. Their experience is steeped into my heart and soul. My ancestors weren't driven out of the south because of their race or faith, they were driven by economic need. I was blessed with grandparents who helped us learn the verbal family history, long before we learned how to research it. We now know that children in the mid 19th century were put into the workhouse when their parents couldn't feed them because there was no work, and taken home as soon as they could.
I'm giving this personal history because it informs who I am. It informs my politics and informed my working life, working with children and families who were (to put it mildly) struggling.
How is Margaret Hodge talking about her family experience any different to the comments I've made about mine. We were fortunate, we had family members die young, mill workers in Manchester in the mid 19th century had an average life expectancy of 19 years. We weren't though, forced to wear a sign saying we were CofE mill workers/miners. We weren't rounded up and gassed. Margaret Hodge (like a number of my Jewish friends) lost all the ancestors left in Poland/Eastern Europe to the holocaust. That would I suspect influence your politics, your belief systems.