Frank Field

Give up trisher, Margaret did not use the death camps.

Why POGS? Because the extreme left are now in control of the party and extreme left party members will defend every lie which comes from them.

I am watching Dateline on BBC and the vilification of Frank Field is coming from Yasmin Alibhai-Brown , no surprise .

Thank goodness another panelist said he did not recognise her description.

I am watching it to

Neither DH or I have visited any of the death camps but we have visited Oradour-Sur-Glane about 10 years ago while staying with my SIL who at that time lived in the area. We started off gaily enough, it was a lovely day and we took a picnic! By the time we left all of us were absolutely shattered at what we had seen and heard. It was a shocking, shocking business, and the sight of bullet holes and scorch marks in the church tiny abandoned shoes an old car, pram, and on it went, all left exactly as it was at the end of that appalling day all those years ago. The death camps of course are far worse by comparison but if I'd had relatives murdered in this awful way by that terrible regime, I too would be very nervous of people shouting semitic abuse at me.

Let’s not forget that the gas chambers were the ‘final solution’ and the anti Semitic behaviour of the Nazis began in 1933, it took until 1942 for the ‘final solution’ to be implemented. There was first vilificationof the Jews, followed by various laws which very gradually, over years, stripped the them of their rights. I think that it is entirely possible that Margaret Hodge was referring to the gradual vilification of Jewish people that occurred in Germany, and much later in Poland and other occupied territories. She is comparing what happened first, but of course we all know what happened later. It was a process of gradual persecution, so many did not realise the danger. This process is what Margaret Hodge is referring to in my opinion. No one with any sense can believe that today’s anti Semitic behaviour could lead to death camps in Britain, but underlying anti semitism is what is being referred to.

Well said Nellie.

I would say that there seems to be a lot more anti Semitic behaviour in Britain today simply from watching news items. I could guess at a few reasons, but certainly any anti Semitic behaviour in any political party would seem to make such thinking and behaviour acceptable to some people. That is why any tolerance of such behaviour is dangerous.

Then she should have said so maddyone using the behaviour of the Nazis was in my opinion a political move to get the publicity she was looking for and to attempt to prop up the last vestiges of support for a PLP which is right wing. It shows I suppose a certain degree of desperation. And let us not forget that Jews were not the only people who died in camps and in other places amongst them socialists and communists, the disabled and those whose ethnic origins were not acceptable. 5 million of them www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/content/articles/2005/01/20/holocaust_memorial_other_victims_feature.shtml

For anyone who can't be bothered with the link
In the early years of the Third Reich, political prisoners were a significant portion of the concentration camp inmates. At the end of July 1933, about 27,000 political prisoners were being held in concentration camps in "protective custody."

Dachau was always a camp for political prisoners.

As the mother of a gay son trisher, I do not forget. But we also cannot forget that Jews were the primary victims.

Well said niggly and maddy, Margaret said ‘in the 30’s’

The accusations accusing her of using death camps give a glimps of what Jews have to put up with and why Corbyn isn’t bothered about anti semitism .

She did not mention death camps, fact. It was obvious she was distressed when she gave the interview. To accuse her of using her families fate for political reasons is in my opinion cruel.

As the daughter of a man who helped liberate one of the camps, and who never recovered from the terror of the sights he saw, Tricia, give it up, you will never convince any decent person from having sympathy with Margaret Hodge.
Anti semit behaviour must be denounced by all. The Labour Party I have loved is no more.

According to figures on the link I gave it was 6 million Jews and 5 million others. I would like to think all the people posting on this site had as much sympathy for the socialists, communists, Roma and Slavs, Jehovas witnesses and Gays who died, but I have a feeling they are much focussed on the Jewish community perhaps for their own political ends. The problem is if we forget the others we do them a disservice particularly the socialists, trade unionists and communists who opposed the Nazis and who campaigned against them so arguably died trying to save others.

This thread is for posts on Frank Field and his speaking out against anti semitism and bullying in the Labour Party.

Have sympathy with her by all means Grandmashe43 but be aware that she is a politician and that she opposes the present party leadership. Of course anti-semitic behaviour should be opposed by all but so should using anti-semitic slurs for political gain.

Grandmashe, well said.

You poor father must have witnessed what I couldn’t even imagine

Tricia, I most certainly would never forget any person who was interred in anyone of the camps, my Dad, carried his rosary beads with him to comfort anyone one, and believe me their were many who clung to him and the rosary beads he carried.I have those beads.

trisher, who has made anti semetic slurs?

As I have my grandmother's Grandemashe43. Perhaps then you can explain to me why it acceptable to use the the names communist and socialist on many threads as terms of abuse. Socialist I am proud to admit I am, Communist I am not, but these people were persecuted. I don't know which camp your father witnessed but I should imagine the people who entered Dachau where the political prisoners were held were as traumatised as he was. It is unimaginable. The idea that Nazi atrocities were confined to one race is commonly held now by many. It should in the interests of political freedom be challenged. This is not to negate the Jewish horrors but rather to emphasise that such regimes discriminate and destroy whole sections of society and only a free press and a freedom to debate can stand against them. And name calling and unfounded accusations do nothing to further political freedoms.

Thrisher, there has been no name calling, surely you don’t consider communist as derogatory when you have said your grandfather was a communist and how proud you are of him

I didn't say they were terms of abuse I said they were used as such. I believe you have accused me of having such beliefs before Annie don't think you meant it as a compliment. Just think when my grandad was part of the communist movement here people in Germany were being sent to Dachau for it.

Diverting

I think it began in Germany with the Jewish community, and I believe, given any chance that the atrocities they suffered, be ignored as it was in Germany, we risk history repeating itself. Frank Field has taken a stand and I applaud him.
The Labour movement is at risk, a thought too horrible to imagine,
We stand for fairness and justice for all.

Friday 31st August,2018, an article in The Telegraph (sorry not very good at links, note to self, learn how) says that Nazi victims were likely to have been in the 15 to 20 millions, from a study over 13 years by historians based at the The Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC. They have studied a much broader base including the death camps, forced labour camps, Nazi ‘Care’ Centers, deaths which occurred under brutal cooperating regimes etc. It is not really surprising. I have visited this museum in Washington, and it is indeed eye opening. It covers all those persecuted and murdered, not just the Jewish people, though the fact remains that the Jews were the largest group. I believe over 60 million people died in WW2, but that figure includes service personnel, civilian victims, and all others. I think the Russians lost the most people.

It all seems a long way from Frank Field. But it is not. He feels his party is anti Semitic, and so has acted as he has. That is up to him. But it is against the backdrop of very recent history that this is all being played out. I admire Frank Field, I have admired him for a long time, in my opinion he is a man of principle, and a practicing Christian, who lives his life through the guidance of Christ’s teachings.