Should the electorate have the final say on Brexit?

Do we have any real statesmen/women who could effectively lead any successful government today. I only seem to have some respect for the shadow Chancellor, John McDonnel.
Trouble is our Parliament has become sloppy deferring most of the policy and law making to the ECJ. This is why many are worried about Brexit as it will mean they will actually have to govern in a meaningful way.

Joelsnan, apart from the oft cited 'immediate hit to the economy' (which is happening but in slower motion) and the 'out break of WW3' (Boris's interpretation, not what was actually said) what other 'lies' were promulgated by the Remain campaigners?

I'm also genuinely interested in the sources of your long and intensive research into the EU which convinced you that leaving was the best option. Would you like to give us some examples?

MaizieD
I was an enthusiastic opponent of the common market and saw it as a good thing for the UK. After a while i saw repirts in my lical newspaper of our large engineering companys relicating their manufacturing and i became concerned about the youth and the lack of home based skilled workers. Both of our main engineering employers outsourced and with them went hundreds if apprenticeships in mechanical and electrical engineering, gear cutting etc., and these were never replaced. We went through a period where school leavers went on worthless six month work placements which were supposed to provide them with work but few did.
I watched as our youth were villified and deemed feckless this so that profit driven companys could bring in cheap trained workers from the EU. They didnt have to spend money training them and they could pay them minimum wage. Indeed most are good workers.
I watched as Germany has grown in power and is achieving by steakth what it couldnt do by war. I watched as countries such as Germany exploit the poorer countries providing them with grants to improve their infrastructure, roads etc. So the can get their cheaply produced goods out whilst not improving the lives of those who live there.
I watch as nationalism is rising throughout Europe, though as UK is experiencing, leaving a disfuctional organisation is a frightening prospect akin to trying to leave the Soviet union.
As the EU big boys strive for a federal state it is evident that this is a step too far. The Eastern Bloc is very nationalustic and their cultures are still strongly religion based. Even Sweden is getting wary of the dictatorial stance coming from the 'big boys' especially with regard to free movement and immigration. In just about every country within the EU there is a simmering frustration at ground level.
It is being muted by some within the EU that it has become too big and that it may be vetter reconfiguring as smaller looser trading alliances where polotical issues are devolved back to governments but with common agreements in place.
Had the union remained as a teading alliance i would still be singing its praises, However, as i have seen the demise of our manufacturing infrastrucure, the quality of jobs available to our youth being zero or gig economy non jobs. Our run down areas beautified with EU funds which is actually UK money sent to EU, an admin charge skimmed off then sent back with a big blue plaque to say its EU money.
The Erasmus project benefits a few, all students should benefit from overseas teavel. When i was at school in the 1960s we had an exchange program with a school in Lille, France.
For every scientist saying Brexit is bad, you can find ithers sayin gring it on as research and cooperation is global. The satellute thing. Most of the money and research is UK. Yet there are countries who have barely contributed who will genefit the most, whilst I am all for genevolence, i am not for taking the P.
I have friends who have relocated or who have holiday homes in Spain. Some have estabished themselves as citizens others not.
There are many more reasons why, but maybe that is enough for now (visitors just arrived).

Thank you for taking the time to write that, Joelsnan

You lost me at the first sentence???

I think she meant 'proponent', jura...

Sorry, as usual should have done a preview and correction before posting but visitors arrived before i could do it. I hope it can be understood.

A FReudian slip perhaps - like Jacob Rees Mogg saying the other day that 'Brexit is a fundemental mistake' - to Ferrari on LBC
and there I was, agreeing with him - for once.

Nonnie Theresa May put herself forward for an impossible task - yes I agree. But why? Weeks before the referendum, she was advocating Remain. How did she propose to administer something that she did not believe in? I can only conclude that she saw herself in the ultimate power position and loved the idea. Everything she has said and done since has proved that she is using and abusing her position to satisfy her longing for power and control. She claims to be delivering what the electorate has voted for, but is blind to the fact that nearly half of those who voted wanted the opposite. (It should not have been a binary vote, but thats another matter).
In many other ways she has displayed a complete lack of empathy. Witness her failure to show sympathy for the victims of the Grenfell Tower disaster; the defining role she played in the Windrush scandal (which she tried to swerve responsibility for); the General Election she hastily called last June, which meant she had to pay and befriend terrorists to achieve support in the Commons. Witness her denial of the necessity for foodbanks and the failing NHS. She is no innocent victim Nonnie. If she truly cared about our country and it's very uncertain future out of the EU, she would strive to address the social division that this frightening and depressing 'divorce' is creating, thereby illustrating that she cares about ALL Britain's citizens.

As PM it is her duty to do her best for this country, or at least to do no harm and yet she insists on pursuing this nonsensical "red lines" brexit whilst at the same time refusing to say that she no longer believes that it would be in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.

Not going to get into a debate about the PM as that is not what this thread is about. I think whoever was PM at this time would have all sorts of nastiness thrown at them because Brexit is a cause which cannot be won. We don't know TM's motivation for taking on the task so no point in speculating. I would feel sorry for whoever had this job unless it was Boris because imo he deserves all he gets. I just heard his wife is divorcing him, if true I admire her for staying with him so long!

and I hate to say I told you so,BUT ,the westminster clowns just voted to do away with the European human rights charter after Brexit!! Watch this space for no minimum wage ,no maternity leave etc etc etc .

‪The referendum in 2016 cannot reasonably be accepted in 2018 to be the will of the people today without a People’s vote.‬ The disgusting outburst from Boris somewhat supported by the RW media highlights even further the present poison in our society generated by extremist politicians who now seem incapable of any form of decent behaviour.
We created a monster in 2016, let’s try to restore respect for our whole nation instead of the poisonous extremism.

The Trades Union Congress has warned Theresa May it is poised to throw its "full weight" behind calls for a referendum on the final Brexit deal.

TUC leader Frances O'Grady said that unless the government struck "the deal that working people need" with the EU, she would demand a "popular vote".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45464115

The latest polls are really starting to reflect public opinion in spite of Brexit fanatics blind prejudices to public change of opinions.

Brexit talks at risk of collapse as British cabinet ministers brand EU compromise on Irish border 'unacceptable'

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-risk-collapse-irish-border-compromise-uk-eu-a8527531.html

Surely when it has come to this more than two years after the fraudulent brexit referendum we should say "enough is enough" . If parliament has not got the guts to cancel brexit, then let the people decide.

A Conservative MP who resigned as a government minister in July has joined calls for the public to be given a final say on Brexit. Guto Bebb stepped down as a defence minister in order to vote against the government in key votes on Britain’s future relationship with the EU.

As Theresa May struggles to convince her MPs to back her strategy, and amid growing support for a second vote, Mr Bebb said a public poll on any final Brexit deal was the only way to resolve “gridlock” in parliament.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/final-say-brexit-deal-public-vote-tory-minister-guto-bebb-commons-gridlock-support-may-peoples-vote-a8528731.html

Spoke to a close friend this morning at our coffee morning. She was really upset because she has been a fanatical Brexit leave campaigner. Her daughter has come round to wanting a People vote, this has upset Mum. When they discussed the reasons and the way Boris and Rees-Mogg have behaved she broke down in tears. She has not as yet come round to rejecting Brexit, but now has doubts which is really worrying her.

I had a friend come for lunch ( she voted remain)
Some time ago she admitted she knew nothing about the eu so I pointed her to some reading. She went on to find a lot more 'stuff' on her own, but the ONE thing that she can't get her head round is the monthly change between Brussels and Strasbourg at the cost of £150 million a year.
All she kept saying was " that's my bloody money"
Obviously she is now a leaver.

Hi what part of the majority won and democracy do you not understand? we will exit hard and end of much love

And what part of breaking electoral law and telling lies do you not understand, andy?

Democracy is being able to change your mind; I suggest you get over it...

£150 million a year? You have some very rich friends, petra

I would like to see a Peoples' vote on the "deal" whatever that is but I do not feel optimistic about the outcome.

The 2016 referendum was fraudulent. It is now apparent that any kind of brexit, let alone a "no-deal" brexit will damage our country in many ways for a generation or more, but it is still quite startling to see that most leave voters cannot or will not accept that they made a very bad mistake.

It was Carl Sagan who said-

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Scottish LibDem leader Willie Rennie writing in the "Independent" says-

"Jeremy Corbyn was in Scotland for a four-day visit last week. On a trip to the old cotton mills of New Lanark he spoke of his confidence that Labour could win more Scottish seats in the next general election.

But it appears Corbyn is out of tune with public opinion and his own membership on more than one issue.

Scotland has a staunchly pro-European outlook. It voted to remain in the EU by 62 per cent in 2016 and since then the Remain sentiment has only grown. Scottish people are acutely aware that splintering off from Europe could cripple the health service, choke trade and deter talented people from coming to live and work here. So if the Labour leader is looking to win seats here, he’ll need to revise his policy."

www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-final-say-brexit-eu-peoples-vote-referendum-a8510776.html

It is two weeks tomorrow that I first asked “ Should the electorate have the final say on Brexit? “
Many thanks to all who have contributed to the debate. I was hoping that as we get closer to the deadlines of leaving, the government would have had a clearer position to put to the people and we could draw this sad saga to a conclusion. Instead today, the prospect of a measured decision from Number 10 seems to be deminishing. We are entering into a further period of ineptitude that we have not seen in this Country since the 1930’s.
It is very sad but the Conservative decision to hold a referendum without clear clarification in the wording of what staying or leaving the eu really meant was an incredible mistake, which is now wasting £ billions at a time we need to stabilise local government, our care and health services, as well as the UK infrastructure. The pain, the stupid hate and racialism, plus the harm and cost being caused to family life was certainly not worth the damage Brexit has created.
Let’s pray that soon common sense prevails and the Country can find a way back to normality. Though I have doubts under the present leadership.

Thanks once again for so many constructive views.
Martha.