Should the electorate have the final say on Brexit?

Former British ambassador to the EU Ivan Rogers gave a lecture at Trinity College Cambridge characterising Brexit as a revolution against the British and European ancien regimes. Two years after the revolution, it had started to eat its own, so that moderate Brexiteers such as Michael Gove are now viewed with suspicion by former comrades.

“Whether we have reached the point where Mr Gove and acolytes get condemned by the pinstriped Robespierres of the Committee of Public Safety – or is it the European Research Group? – for insufficient revolutionary fervour, and being, like some latter-day Danton, in the pay of foreign powers, I do not know,” he said.

Rogers said it had taken the Brexiteers more than two years to understand that Britain’s national objectives and preoccupations were more or less the same now as before the 2016 referendum. But an arrangement that protects the British economy and jobs and keeps trade with the EU “frictionless” is not available within the red lines Theresa May set out two years ago.

“As Xavier Bettel, the Luxembourg PM, summarised Brexit in a sentence better than anyone: ‘They were in with a load of opt-outs. Now they are out and want a load of opt-ins.’ Spot on. The last 28 months have also been a discovery process for the British political class. It does not work like that. Flexibility is much, much harder to elicit when you are out than when you are in. And the club you are leaving is not going to alter its rules and do things which are wholly unprecedented for a non-member, simply because you used to be a member,” he said.

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/brexit-trapped-inside-a-fatal-metaphor-for-uk-departure-1.3660604

Cake and eat-it brexit was never going to be possible. Those of us who realised that and appreciated that the UK had the best deal of any member country had the good sense to vote Remain.

Now that it should be obvious to far more people that any kind of brexit will damage our country and a no-deal brexit would be catastrophic, we should be given the final say in a Peopl's Vote - Deal, No-deal or Remain.

And to put things in perspective, that have been totally distorted by Brexiters- do get your magnifying glass ready:

www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=943272752525458&set=gm.2175563729432171&type=3&eid=ARDTqvre-uDUga4twtKbAPu3MLw7BVENE_iC7QBFxygMVTETGrxt-E8hpj0QtV1-GrqcfBmsDzDPmB4V

Nice try, jura

But that graphic was posted on here ages ago. Leavers were more fixated on the fact that our contribution was £billion than the fact that it was a minute part of national expenditure.

Pragmatism has no place in their thinking...

... well I thought it was worth posting again- but yes ;)

Around 10,000 young people will take to the streets to lead a major demonstration in support of a fresh referendum on Brexit.

Students, college pupils and young activists from as far afield as northern Scotland are due to head up the People’s Vote March for the Future on Saturday 20 October, organised in conjunction with The Independent.

The demonstration is designed to show the breadth of public support for a Final Say vote on Theresa May’s deal, and organisers expect to better their previous march in July, where more than 100,000 people turned out.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-protest-eu-referendum-final-say-peoples-vote-march-deal-a8581566.html

It is not just those of us who voted to Remain in the EU that would like the chance to vote on "the deal" with an option to remain as we are. 3.3 million Leave voters now support a People's Vote with the option to Remain, a new poll has revealed.

The research, from anti-Brexit campaign group Best for Britain and HOPE not hate, could deal a massive blow to Brexiteers who claim the British public definitively made up their minds in 2016, and adds to growing momentum in recent weeks for people to be given the final say on any deal Theresa May brings back from Brussels.

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/three-point-three-million-leave-voters-support-peoples-vote-says-new-poll-1-5719471

I do hope common sense prevails, varian. Pragmatism used to be one of national qualities.
I'm going to start praying again for this - it can't hurt.

I see a report today that after Brexit the UK will be given 984 licences for trucks to go to EU - 38,000 trucks are going currently!

Many of the BBC’s Brexit articles are accompanied by its “guide to Brexit jargon”. Conspicuous in their absence from the list of 63 Brexit terms are “People’s Vote”, “final say”, “second referendum” and “Remain”. There’s little to suggest Brexit is anything but an inevitable policy to be thrashed out by factions of the Tory party. What’s more, the top six options shown to readers are all possible Brexit outcomes – none of them covering “no Brexit”.

infacts.org/why-is-bbc-so-often-ignoring-option-of-peoples-vote/

Apparently a documentary being made in advance by the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation about the People's Vote March was cancelled on the grounds that "no-one is interested" .

700,000 people were interested enough to attend the march - seven times as many as were expected. Every opinion survey in the last months shows a majority in favour of a vote and a majority rejecting any kind of brexit.

If we do get a vote on the deal with the option of remaining, I am still afraid that too many voters would be swayed, as they were two years ago by the blatant bias in our newspapers and the BBC.

Over one million people have now signed The Independent’s petition calling for the British public to be given a Final Say on Brexit in a new referendum. That means this is the biggest petition Change.org have run from the UK this year.

The petition reached the milestone on Saturday afternoon, just three months after it was launched and amid deadlock in negotiations with Brussels and growing concern over a looming no-deal Brexit or the possibility of a deal that does not prove to be popular with the public.

Theresa May has refused to contemplate a new referendum – but the matter may eventually be taken out of her hands, with odds on the prime minister finding any deal parliament can approve dwindling.

www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-give-people-a-final-say-on-brexit-deal/u/23503451?cs_tk=ARWfXXXMq1sHKmgQ21sAYYBxs8bFKc2lboJ8vky3kw%3D%3D&utm_campaign=3c3067497d704a8098315976b6c50c51&utm_medium=email&utm_source=petition_update&utm_term=cs

There is of course the age argument that by Jan 19th 2019 the demographic will have changed so much with Brexiteers dying and younger voters numbers (who are pro-European) increasing. www.independent.co.uk/voices/final-say-remain-leave-second-referendum-brexit-no-deal-crossover-day-a8541576.html
It does seem wrong that older people who will not experience the problems should have thefinal say.

Quite so Trisher, especially when so many of them were duped by the Leave Liars.

It is quite wrong for the brexiters to claim that everyone who voted leave the EU voted to leave the single market and customs union. They certainly did not.

twitter.com/peoplesvote_uk/status/1058046754040541185/video/1

More than 1,500 of the UK’s top lawyers have urged Theresa May and MPs to back a second Brexit referendum, saying that “democratic government is not frozen in time”.

Labour peer Helena Kennedy QC, former court of appeal judge Konrad Schiemann, and David Edward, a former judge at the court of justice of the European Communities, are among those who have called for a “people’s vote” on EU membership.

In a letter to the prime minister, they say parliament should not be bound by the 2016 vote any more than it should be by the 1975 referendum that took Britain into the EU, especially when there were question marks over its validity.

They write that “voters are entitled to know what they are voting for”, adding: “There was a key difference between 1975 and 2016. The earlier referendum was held after negotiations were complete, so voters knew what they were voting for. Let the people judge whether a Brexit deal is fit for purpose.

“In 2016, the nature of the negotiation process and its outcome were unknown. Voters faced a choice between a known reality and an unknown alternative. In the campaign, untestable claims took the place of facts and reality.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/05/uks-top-lawyers-urge-theresa-may-to-back-second-brexit-vote

More than 70 major business leaders have called for a second referendum on Brexit.

Bosses from major high street companies such as Waterstones and Sainsbury’s warned Theresa May’s Brexit proposals are “bad for business and bad for working people”.

Waterstones chief executive James Daunt, ex-Sainsbury's chief executive Justin King, Lastminute.com founder Baroness Lane-Fox and Innocent Drinks co-founder Richard Reed were among signatories of a letter calling for a People's Vote on leaving the EU.

The letter argues both the government's plans for Brexit and a no-deal Brexit would leave the country worse off than it would being part of the EU.

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-more-than-70-top-business-leaders-call-for-second-referendum-a3980051.html

More than 70 major business leaders have called for a second referendum on Brexit.

As have 1,500 of our prominent lawyers

More than 1,500 of the UK’s top lawyers have urged Theresa May and MPs to back a second Brexit referendum, saying that “democratic government is not frozen in time”.

Labour peer Helena Kennedy QC, former court of appeal judge Konrad Schiemann, and David Edward, a former judge at the court of justice of the European Communities, are among those who have called for a “people’s vote” on EU membership.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/05/uks-top-lawyers-urge-theresa-may-to-back-second-brexit-vote?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX01vcm5pbmdCcmllZmluZ1VLLTE4MTEwNQ%3D%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=MorningBriefingUK&CMP=morningbriefinguk_email

(apologies for the very long link)

20,000 people were questioned by Channel 4 on the possibility of another vote, agead of a televised debate to be broadcast tonight- Brexit: What The Nation Really Thinks will be broadcast at 8pm on Monday.

43% said they would support a second referendum that was a binary choice between a deal and staying in, with 37% opposing a vote on those terms.

However while it was backed by 63% of people who voted Remain, it was backed by just 20% of Leave voters.

www.itv.com/news/2018-11-04/four-in-10-britons-back-second-referendum-offering-in-out-brexit-choice-poll/

Obviously the "Remain voters" will back/want a second referendum, and probably a third, fourth and fifth one until they get the result they want.

We had a "once in a lifetime" referendum, both sides were economic with the truth. The result was to leave the EU and the HofP should stop squabbling and political point scoring and just get on with the practicality of leaving what is the corrupt money pit called the EU!!

We had a ‘once in a lifetime’ vote in 1975 - so why did we need another one — because those who never wanted the U.K. to join never shut up about it for 40 years — another 38 to go this time!

Varian, will the next referendum make it clear to voters what exactly they are voting for?

'Remain' was clear, as that was what we were accustomed to. But 'Leave' was so vague as to be useless because leavers(i.e. Brexiters) cannot have known what exactly they were voting for.

I was 18 in July 1975, it never occurred to me to march outside parliament because I was ineligible to vote on 5/6/75 Or hope that all the elderly people who had voted would die so that if there were to be another vote the demographics would be different.

Did any Gran who voted in the referendum to 'Leave ' know that they were voting for trouble with the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland?
If not, then the referendum was nonsense, as people need to know what they are voting for.

I voted Remain because I knew it was the right thing to do----Brexiteers voted in protest to my way of thinking.

it is called a majority....we won leave...we will not be betrayed not with treason may.....

Oh dear, oh dear - have you learned absolutely nothing in the last two and a half years?