The Last Days of Mrs May?

The opposition have been next to useless and haven’t got any real solutions to the current crisis. They are all paddling down sh1tcreek together.

Welshwife I also watched Margaret Becket's speech and was very impressed by her clear insight into the state we are in and her indictment of TM for her bad handling of the whole brexit fiasco.

It was a nonsense for TM to start off with these ludicrous "red lines" which have resulting in the present "deal" being the best we could ever expect from the negotiations.

Corbyn may think he could get a better deal, and so do some Tories, but the stark choice is between TM's bad deal, (far worse than the good deal we now enjoy), a catastrophic no-deal and what TM describes as "no brexit" - the best deal of all.

It was Cameron trying to silence the Eurosceptics in the Tory party that brought forward the Referendum. It is now very clear those same Tory Eurosceptics had no idea on how to bring about Britain making an orderly withdraw from the EU when that Referendum was won by those same Brexitiers.

Those Tory Brexitiers then engaged in a two-year demand of leaving terms from the European Union that under the terms of the treaties that Britain had signed ensured the European Union were unable to grant those terms. The Tory party then engaged in an internal battle that has brought about the parliamentary chaos the country now sees in front of it.

Now, would some forum member please point out to me how Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party can be held in any way responsible for the above debacle.

They’re not in any way responsible Grandad, they just haven’t got anything better, or even worse, to offer.

maddyone, the Labour party are the parliamentary opposition. It is their responsibility to hold this government to account on the policies they bring forward. May & Co have not indicated that they wish to see a cross-party coalition government formed or even requested any Labour party plans for Brexit be tabled for debate in the House of Commons.

Therefore, until a General Election is called or a further Referendum is announced the Labour party can have no effective bearing on the parliamentary and national chaos this Tory Government has caused.

It is also the job of any opposition party to bring about a general election so that its core beliefs can be placed before the Country. Should that election come about then all can question those policies, but until then all is the responsibility of this shambles of a Tory Government and no other body.

I am perfectly well aware of parliamentary process Grandad, and have no need of your explanation. However, since you stated that the Labour Party are not responsible for the debacle, and I simply agreed with you that they are indeed not in any way responsible, I fail to see why you imagined I either wanted or needed a lesson from yourself, on parliamentary process.

maddyone, in my above post I did not make a statement on the parliamentary process, but just laid out the past and present position of the Labour party in this Brexit debacle.

There would seem to be many members of this forum who wish to paint a picture of the Labour party being as equal to the Conservative party in bringing about the present crisis situation.

In the foregoing, the Labour party are not in any way responsible for this Brexit debacle, as that can be firmly placed at the door of this Tory government and nowhere else.

In my opinion, this May and the previous Cameron led administration are the two worst governments this country has had since the second world war.

Grandad, you have clearly nailed your Labour supporter credentials to the mast, on this and other occasions. I have also clearly said twice, now three times, that I do not believe that the Labour are responsible for the present ‘debacle’. Apparently my agreeing with you is not good enough, as you continue to argue belligerently with me. I have observed this, without comment, previously. So I say it again, the Labour Party are not responsible for the present ‘debacle.’

Grandad, your view of who is the worst government ever is simply your view. Everyone is entitled to their own view.

It's also my view maddyone, so that's two of us .

Count me in. That makes three...

As I said, everyone is entitled to their view.

I am surprised far left labour supporters think the May and Cameron governments are the worse since WW2. The Thatcher government obviously wasn’t a problem for them.

were there 130,000 children homeless at Christmas back in Thatchers day*Annie*...there will be this year under May .Now as you probably realise I think( along with most of Scotland) that Maggie was the devil incarnate but Teresa is certainly up there beside her,people in my area who claim benefits from yesterday will get NO payments until January ! Heartless?Not at all ...just self centred greedy bastards who think the only folk that count are the tory elite .THAT shows how angry I am about people being expected to live on fresh air through no fault of their own...and as for the clown who said they should "take in lodgers" what planet is he on ? Many have no space for their own families after being hit with bedroom tax .Personally I'd like to see every tory made to live under these circumstances for at least a year ....or longer .Take their ill gotten gains ,their expenses ,their sense of entitlement and superiority and destroy the scum.They are truly the shame of the UK .

‘Paddyann*. There was social housing until Thatcher

I did thin Thatcher's was the worst government in my lifetime, Annie, until these two came along.

At least Thatcher was a) competent and b) wasn't working to destroy the country and parliamentary democracy.

think

I can remember thinking that America would never have a President as useless as George Bush Jnr as well...strange [and dangerous] times we live in.

I am not far left labour supporter but am a Labour Party member. Many problems that we face in society today can undoubtedly be traced back to Thatcher's premiership, but I do not believe it is possible to match the sheer incompetence and poor decision making of Cameron and subsequently May's government.

I agree that Thatcher did great damage to our country, but the havoc caused by Cameron's irresponsiblity and May's incompetence could be far worse if brexit is allowed to go ahead.

However, having listened to Labour brexit spokesman Barry Gardiner on the Channel 4 debate, I do not think that Corbyn becoming PM at this stage would help us at all. Do LP supporters really believe he could get better terms ?

I am hoping May loses the vote to keep UK shacked to EU in perpetuity. I wish enough MP's would topple her with vote of no confidence. I see Labour are considering going for May rather than Tory party as they think she can be toppled with help of DUP. Tory party need a new leader who can go in and get a better deal. Paying half of the £39 billion up front is sensible and rest paid on completion of trade deal. This is what many people do with a trades person do not pay until job is completed to satisfaction. Why May would want to pay it upfront with no guarantee of trade deal is beyond me especially as House of Lords legal experts stated we do not technically owe EU any money to leave but only pay for a trade deal.

If we have new referendum then May's deal or WTO deal should be question as we have already voted on in or out. So if new referendum then which type of out deal should be question to respect democracy.

But did people who voted leave say they wanted to have WTO rules? It wasn't [along with most things] on the ballot paper if my memory serves me correctly Why, now that more facts about leaving the EU are emerging all the time, can people not have a remain option. 'Democracy is not, and never was, about following through an ill informed decision when more information is available, just because a decision was made at a point in time'.

If you offered to buy a house subject to survey and the survey found the house was structurally unsound and riddled with dry rot and other defects, you would then have the choice of going ahead or pulling out of the deal.

Voters were offered a false prospectus on the benefits of brexit - win-win, cake-and-eat-it, rainbows, unicorns, sunlit uplands, and quite a lot of them were duped into believing the lies.

Now the stark truth emerges. Any kind of brexit will leave us worse off, having given up control and diminished our place in the world.

We are entitled to make an informed choice and a responsible government, if it cannot bring itself to make that choice should allow the people to vote.

If we ran this country by Referendums then the we would be in a far worse state than we are at present. Hard to believe I know. We would likely have capital punishment for one thing. Having decided to hold one, which was to appease the dissident Tories, we are now stuck with it, and I just want what is best for the country. I have many misgivings about Brexit and think we are far better in the EU but Varian no, I do not believe the LP led by JC would be able to achieve a better deal. TM is now going back to EU and hoping to pull rabbits out of the hat. Watch this space. I am sticking with the LP because I think they will be a better government for this country after the inevitable fall of the Tories.