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Is this the beginning of the end for Brexit?

(224 Posts)
Cindersdad Fri 21-Sep-18 11:52:42

Most of us pro REMAIN voters certainly hope so. Even Tory moderates like Justine Greening and Dominic Grieve see a second referendum as the best option for the country. We cannot just disregard the original referendum even though we know it was based on many lies. The only way to resolve the situation democratically is to give the people another say, this time hopefully better informed.

Theresa May is probably a Remainer at heart and still the only Tory capable of being Premier. She was left with an impossible job after the referendum stuck in a political hard place between right wing idealogues and common sense. Now perhaps she may yield to common sense and give democracy and the country another chance.

The world has moved on since June 2016 and the UK electorate has demographic has changed. More younger voters whose future it is can now have a say, sadly some of us oldies have passed away. The interference of Russia and even Trump is understood.

World War 2 started 21 years after World War 1, European Unity has resulted is over 70 years of a mainly peaceful Europe. Brexit could harm that and it simply is not worth it and there is nothing good about Brexit.

winterwhite Fri 21-Sep-18 12:12:17

I second this analysis. My main concern is TM's disregarded promise to govern for the 'Just about managing', for whom things have been getting steadily worse and whose post-Brexit prospects look miserable.

Why are Brexiteers not tackling this, instead of repeating their old slogans and blaming everybody else for bad news.? Why on earth did Cabinet members agree the wretched Chequers proposals in the first place if most of them apparently now think them rubbish?

Things have taken a real turn for the worse, and who is putting the 'Just about managing" first, or indeed giving them any thought at all?

GillT57 Fri 21-Sep-18 12:26:54

Full agreement from me too. QT was interesting last night, the lawyer Nazir Afzal said it is no longer 'Project Fear' it is now 'Project Reality'.
The leaders of the car industry are concerned, and I believe around 850,000 jobs are dependent upon this area of industry, but still they get dismissed as scaremongers.

JessM Fri 21-Sep-18 12:55:41

Why on earth did she want to be PM after that devastating referendum result? And then made a major error in calling a snap election. No-one can explain why she went to the EU this week with her Chequer's shopping list so universally unpopular with EU leaders. Never believed a word about the "just about managing". Worst PM and worst government of my lifetime.

lemongrove Fri 21-Sep-18 13:09:38

The PM was trying ( probably) to get through a ‘soft’ Brexit
But if the EU doesn’t want that, then going to WTO rules is the only real outcome and who knows, maybe the better plan.It’s still all ingoing and too early to predict accurately what the deal will be.
The EU is proving to be a Hotel California and some leaders there seem to prefer cutting off their own noses, however I think in the end, they will come together with either May
Or whoever takes over, if the Conservatives decide to change leader.It’s in the interest of all the 27 countries, apart from us.

Fennel Fri 21-Sep-18 14:32:14

Could the UK legally retract from Article 50?
This is to be decided by the European Court of Justice:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45601394

GrannyGravy13 Fri 21-Sep-18 14:36:50

Still haven't heard anything from the opposition?

They really are missing a golden opportunity to put their views and Brexit plan to the voting public.

Smileless2012 Fri 21-Sep-18 14:39:31

Perhaps their silence is because they haven't decided what their views are and don't have a Brexit plan.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 21-Sep-18 14:50:31

??? I think these emojis sum up the position of most of the elected MP's at the moment - not seeing, not listening and definitely not speaking their opinions.

MaizieD Fri 21-Sep-18 16:04:15

Lord Kerr said we could retract it at any time. He wrote it...

It would be good to get an ECJ ruling on it, though. It's one thing to write a law but it's up to the judiciary to interpret it.

jura2 Wed 26-Sep-18 12:31:47

The standing ovation for Keir Starmer at Labour Conference was certainly heart warming - and now even 56% of the Tory party support remain.

mcem Wed 26-Sep-18 13:06:07

Keir Starmer is proving to be a glimmer of hope.
As a Scot, I know that a huge swing to a Labour vote in a snap general election would be highly significant. I know that even if, once more, we return an overwhelming majority for SNP, our voice in the H of C would be shouted down by the bilateral bickering and ultimately ignored.
BUT if Labour could present a decent UK government I really would have to think carefully about my priorities.
The dilemma doesn't exist while JC is leader and can't give us a credible alternative to May & co but under Starmer??????

jura2 Wed 26-Sep-18 16:02:07

Agreed- at this stage anything, but really anything ... could happen, still.

Anniebach Wed 26-Sep-18 16:04:42

The unions and momentum will not allow Starmer to be leader

Nonnie Wed 26-Sep-18 16:57:07

I also wonder why TM put herself forward as leader, in fact it surprises me that anyone did. It is a poison chalice which I don't think even JC really wants. Boris did a strategic withdrawal because he knew there was no way anyone could deliver what he promised.

I cannot understand why anyone would think the EU would give us a generous deal when it would send a clear message to other countries that they could do the same. Surely that must have been blindingly obvious all along?

All the bleating about democracy from the Leave campaign is because they are worried that another referendum would change the situation. If they are so sure the British public want to leave what are they worried about?

The referendum was based upon people's ideas of what Brexit would mean, a new referendum would be about facts, about the actual deal and what it would mean to us. The two are not comparable. I want a chance to vote on that.

MaizieD Wed 26-Sep-18 19:49:58

Boris didn't even believe in Brexit! He just chose what he thought would be the route to power.

I don't understand why May took the job on, either. But I am horrified at how Parliament has been complicit in subverting our constitution by granting the Executive unlimited powers by way of the 'Henry VIII' clause in the Withdrawal Act.

andycameron69 Wed 26-Sep-18 20:43:26

the majority won the vote, to leave totally. this will happen thankfully.
I fail to see what people do not understand about democracy and majority...

T May is a remainer, hugely, but she will not get her Chequers through, it is to keep up in the EU customs union... and all the other parts

the EU is odious and a dictatoriship,,,end of

MaizieD Wed 26-Sep-18 21:00:19

I'm not sure what people don't understand about 'advisory', unconstitutional 'promises', breaking electoral law, admissions of lying and people having a democratic right to change their minds.

Heigh ho...

lemongrove Wed 26-Sep-18 21:08:48

Exactly Andy you can’t run referenda continually.
Once is final.

Welshwife Wed 26-Sep-18 21:17:16

Really lemon - what about the 1975 vote was that not a one off decisive one? - if not how was it different?

Anniebach Wed 26-Sep-18 21:19:47

If the deal fails Corbyn has said they will force the government back to Brussels. In the same interview he refused to say he would vote leave or remain in another referendum. Some leader !

Hope he has a cushion on that fence .

lemongrove Wed 26-Sep-18 21:19:59

1975 was a helluva long time ago!

jura2 Wed 26-Sep-18 21:30:16

One Referendum on 'leave', one on the reality once we know what it means, is really not 'continually' - again, why are you so scared of it if you are sure you would win. With the country so divided, the only democratic thing to do surely.

Welshwife Wed 26-Sep-18 21:30:26

The only reason? Does that just mean it can be overturned now?

lemongrove Wed 26-Sep-18 21:35:48

The democratic thing jura as many politicians are reminding people is to honour the result of the referendum.
It would be undemocratic to run it again because the losing side didn’t like it.However it’s blustered and dressed up, that’s the only reason some are calling for it.