Is this the beginning of the end for Brexit?

Oh yes, I saw that one too. So true!.
Too close for comfort?
(Still not sure what your doubts are about (Re)Becca though?

I would appreciate it if some of the leavers would please give rational reasons why they think that the lack of a 'good deal' is right for the country, how do they think it compares to the promises made and why they think they will be disadvantaged if the country has a chance to vote on the actual deal rather than the promises.

May I point out just two simple things:

1 The pound has dropped of 1.62$ to 1.31$, why?
2 If I buy something on the high street which is labelled as suitable for specific purposes and find out that it does not do the majority of them I am entitled to my money back. How is that different from a referendum which promises so much that has proved undeliverable?

Indeed- it seems leavers thing our elected Representatives and Government Ministers, are allowed to lie and be fraudulent, in a way no stair-lift or secondhand care salesman would get away with.

Bizarre - and there I was thinking our Government (never mind Beckham) are supposed to be rôle models for us all.

Government logic really does defy me. Aside from Dogma I cannot see any rationale for Brexit. We did have a referendum which we all know was based on false promises from which there seems no escape. The country will be poorer, possibly much poorer, for leaving the EU. Our ability to trade will be little better as within the EU we can trade with pretty much anywhere.

Brexiteers say the referendum will be disrespected. That call smacks of despair when day by day more compelling reasons to remain to come to light. There are faults in the EU but on balance we are better in than out. So if the Brexiteers get their way because a few hundred Tory dogmatists bully Theresa May and other moderate Tories into leading the country into what appears to be an uncertain poorer trading position.

Remember the words of one David Davies who said "If a democracy cannot change its mind it ceases to be a democracy". It is him Boris, Jacob and others who are determined to deny democracy the chance of changing its mind that are disrespecting the whole electorate let alone the flawed referendum.

So when we leave the EU and find the world outside is not so full of promise will they want us back? Probably not and certainly not on the terms we have now. That is why the People must be given the final say knowing much more than they did back in June 2016, if they still want out then so be it.

The prospect of a hard left Labour government horrifies me as much as an ERG led Tory one. I just hope that the Tory conference next week gives moderation a fair hearing. Followed by a Parliament which does the best for the country bringing an eventual end to the Insanity of Brexit through democracy.

Of course- most of us are aware that this is what it is all about, and pretty well nothing else:

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/is-the-anti-tax-avoidance-directive-the-reason-the-rich-want-out-of-eu-1-5669763

- anyone who can't see that- perhaps needs to visit an optician asap.

Politicians say we must “ respect the referendum”- must we also respect the lies that were told? The fact that we will all suffer as a result?

The lies, and the fraud crystalclear.

Anyone else noticed that when reasoned arguments are put forward the Leavers leave? They have only one argument, we voted so should stick with it.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

If we don't push for a vote on the deal we will deserve what we get.

Keep trying Nonnie

What we sorely need, and we are not even getting it, even from the party I support, the Liberal Democrats, is for a fearless politician to stand up and say "I do NOT respect the result of the referendum - it was ill-conceived, fraudulent and won by lies and cheating. Even now no-one, absolutely no-one, fully understands the consequences of brexit. All we know is that any kind of brexit will damage our economy, our society, our place in the world, and a no-deal brexit would be utterly catastrophic"

Ansd to those who have firmly stated here, again and again, that the fate of the UK residents in the EU will be protected- we all know this is not true.

Mrs May and her representatives have refused to meet ana delegation representing the 10s of 1000s of UK citizens resident in the EU- and the reason is clear. They will not garantee rights of EU members in the UK, and quite fairly, that means the EU are going to follow suit:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/02/eu-citizens-lose-priority-under-post-brexit-immigration-plans?CMP=fb_gu

The DUP is now pushing hard - without their support, Mrs May, and the Conservatives, whomever becomes leader are finished.

A friend wrote today : how long will it be before Brexit collapses simply because its own impossibility.

I recommend that any Brit living in another EU country applies for local citizenship. Don't be put off it it looks as if you might lose your UK citizenship, look deeper because it may be that you have lived there long enough to have dual nationality or that being married to a local gives you the right. There is someone in NL taking a case to court to retain his EU citizenship but he doesn't appear to realise he may already be entitled to duel nationality.

Me too Nonnie - in fact, we both have dual nationality, we are both fluent in both languages too- even though OH will always have his wonderful British accent they all love here.

In some regions of France, where UK expats are concentrated (like Dordogne)- there ar no massive queues just for 'Carte de Séjour' - never mind nationality status. No way is anyone at this stage get naturalisation in France before March- especially if it means gettting to a decent level of French. The local French authorities just do not have the wo/man power to deal with a deluge of applications in a few months.

Remember all those lies - among many others, like the money for NHS, etc:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY

Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single market...

why can't we be like Norway and Switzerland, they are happy, they are rich - can't help notice they are doing pretty well- blablabla

oh how they have changed their tune ...

Didn't Farage promise that voting leave meant we would be just like Switzerland?

Oh yes, he did, agains and again and again - but now he says it is not at all what he voted for- and that being like Norway or Switzerland would be a disaster.

I think I did post a video reminding us all what he said... and what he says now.

Here he is, for all to see:

youtu.be/fNCwcTu9U6U

Jura here in the Dordogne (not seen any figures for citizenship) but there are huge lists of people wanting to obtain CDS - I see the latest RDVs are end of next year. However I saw today that Aquitaine Departements have had discussions about standardising paperwork etc - maybe they will speed up the system too.
I think many people are improving their French skills and there are more courses for getting to the level required.

Brexit has cost Britain 500 million pounds a week, and we have not even left yet.

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-economy/brexit-has-cost-britain-500-million-pounds-a-week-study-says-idUKKCN1MA0DU

varian that is even worse than I thought! We have employed thousands of extra civil servants to deal with this but that doesn't seem to be well known either. I know one who has done very well out of it, moved departments, been promoted twice and is now on secondment in the private sector learning how businesses work. No wonder the pound has lost so much value against the dollar.

Let us once and for all nail this "will of the people"nonsense. Which people? The people behind brexit do not have the interests of the UK at heart, but their own interests.

Philip Hammond, in "Alternatives to EU Membership" (2 March 2016) wrote "the EU already either has, or is negotiating, trade deals with all the biggest Commonwealth countries, and none of our allies wants us to leave the EU. Not Australia, not New Zealand, not Canada, not the US. In fact, the only country who would like us to leave the EU is Russia. That should tell us all we need to know."

The truly democratic thing, and yes, I will repeat for the humpteeth time-

is to give a vote on the final deal, as no-one knew what it would entail- this especially as

the majority was tiny
the massive lies
the proven fraud
the changes in the demographics

Democracy cannot, and must not ever, be based on the above. Democracy is a form of contract with thew people - and like any contract, it ishas to be based on truth and fair representation of the 'goods'. A Democratic Government cannot win the vote of the people on the above- and should not be above dodgy second-hand care salesmen or stairlift sellers.

Calme-toi Jura!