The Nasty Labour Party - what they really stand for.

The Capitalist system may not be perfect but is the best there is.

There are ways and ways to run a Capitalist system - the human way- and the other. We certainly have 'the other' at the moment.

Guardian 2018: While developers are required by local authorities to provide a proportion of affordable homes – often about 30% – in any new development, many use “viability assessments” to negotiate down the number by arguing that the requirement would adversely affect their profit margins. Last year Shelter conducted research showing that the use of viability assessments in 11 local authorities across England contributed to 79% fewer affordable homes being built in urban areas of England than would have been if local rules had been followed to the letter.

So, what is an acceptable profit margin? The Economics Foundation states (2017): For the redevelopment of the Heygate Estate in Elephant & Castle, the level of ​‘acceptable’ profit was fixed at 25% – equating to around £300m. Result - every single new flat on this estate was sold to foreign investors (Jones 2017).

And.... what is acceptable Capitalism and where is it likely to emerge?

GrannyGravy13- that certainly does NOT include me. I see no issue whatsoever in people making profit, seeing the benefit of their hard work- that includes most of my friends and family, some at the highest level. And State owned things are not all run as in the old USSR.

Always the same with some of you- concentrating always on extremes and Hobson's ridiculous choices. There are other possible ways. Profit is not at all wrong- as long as it is based on fair employment, environmental, safety, rules.

Has anybody here read any of Marx's work?

Yes

Jura2 I agree with some of your last paragraph.

Unfortunately we are left with so called "Hobsons Choice" as there is not a credible or electable centre political party in the UK.

Actually I could say Marx was a breath of fresh air after studying economics at uni where profit margins were almost zero (excepting of course very exceptional cases of monopolies!!). The workers and their contributions never got much of a look in either - probably because they only get about half their contribution.

Of course, SOME of the increased wealth goes back into research and development but SOME of it ends up in banana republics or very conspicuous consumption..

I bet I can predict who has and who hasn't, grannyp

I wonder what does influence people's political thinking... (apart from the MSM, of course)

Have you read Adam Smith, grannyp. I'm having a go but there's such a lot to wade through before you get to the nub of it.

A long time ago Maze. It was pretty turgid. Sadly perfect competition has never really exists or existed - except in economics textbooks!

After Marx I found the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists nearer to reality.

I believe that a great many of the one in five people now working in the Gig Economy with no holidays pay, no sick pay, no guaranteed hours, no guaranteed basic hours and many without any set hourly pay rate at all believe that capitalism is not working for them

After Marx I found the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists nearer to reality.

I really enjoyed that book but I don't think I could bear to read it again as very little seems to have changed in 100 years. Even the rhetoric and deep suspicion of anything that goes against the 'established order' is much the same. Too depressing to read it again...

Of course it's working, Grandad! Lemon says it is...

MaizieD- honest and true answer- no I didn't, first hand.

so Capitalism isn't working MaizieD now, just interested, is that just here in the UK, or France or Germany or Italy, Spain, USA Canada Australia etc etc etc etc.

it would actually be better and honest of you, if you just said [as grannypauline has] that you consider Communism/Marxism to be the better options.

'very little has changed in a 100 years' you say MaizieD
really?!!

I remember when I first read The Ragged Trousered Ps thinking how odd it was reading about utilities that were not publicly owned but that individuals were making profits from. "Not like that now" I thought.Just goes to show you never know-In the words of the song "Don't it always seem to go you don't know what you've got till it's gone."

You don't have to have read Marx.

The bit I found interesting was his analysis of what I suppose one could call 'political economy'. The Communist Manifesto was idealistic but clearly flawed; if only because in the 20th century we already knew that, even when given the chance, human nature being what it is, people don't respond in the way Marx and Engels though they would. I think they should have studied the French Revolution a bit more closely.

You can't organise a whole society from scratch though you can certainly effect change if you take it incrementally and by consent.

^'very little has changed in a 100 years' you say MaizieD
really?!!^

Have you read it, lemon?

Yes, a very long time ago, all I remember from the novel is
Something about a poor family and a clock, it stops working during the night and he tries to go to work in the middle of the night and is stopped by a policeman, and another character who finds a starving kitten.

To say that nothing much has changed in 100 years is just ridiculous. Even the author ( should he peek down from his Heavenly cloud) would agree with me.

If that's all you can remember about it then you clearly won't have a clue what I'm talking about.

It would be so much better if you were to confine your comments to things that you do have some knowledge of lemon.

Oooh, get back in the knife drawer missy!
I was at school at the time I read this book.However, on a personal note, my Grandma told me of those times round about 1912 , when she was growing up, the utter grinding poverty of it.You simply cannot state that things have hardly changed in 100 years in tbe UK and not be challenged on it
Maizie

Why would one vote to be made poorer and lose vital public services just because one didn't like a party leader?

What an incredibly simplistic and smug soundbite MaizieD

I would vote for the continued economic security of the UK, which isn't a bad place to live, despite your incessant whining that everyone is suffering. A Marxist Labour Government as a panacea for all ills? I think not!

Your soundbite is a blatant lie. Tell us about a country where a socialist government has created a Utopia of security for every single citizen? A place where there is no hardship? A place where life isn't unfair?

Labour is likely to make ordinary people poorer and abysmal budgeting is unlikely to make public services any better than they are at present - unless of course Corbyn and Abbot (magic wand experts) find vast sums in their budget to plough into those services. Just pour money in - without thought to mismanagement, corruption and value for money.

One wonders how they would raise these vast sums. Many in the country including former Labour supporters would be extremely worried as to where that lover of the UK's enemies, Corbyn, would make his cuts.

He doesn't seem keen to defend the UK at any juncture.