The Nasty Labour Party - what they really stand for.

Just study economics for a bit, Day6. Start with searching on 'is a national budget like a household budget?'

And do stop your wild and vituperative accusations. They're very boring.

After Marx I found the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists nearer to reality.

And throw in Adam Smith for good measure!

Socialist bibles! Read by many, many people and lots of them not socialist or Marxists.

It's hilarious. Almost like a Peter Cook sketch!

They think they are bamboozling the poor dimwits who don't operate at their level - or like Corbyn and co. Thank you for the laugh!

Here, a whole lists. The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx is the obvious text, but there are more

From a gamers site - of all places - lots of reading recommendations about socialist revolution for you two. waypoint.vice.com/en_us

Fragments of an Anarchist Anthropology, Debt: The First 5000 Years, and The Utopia of Rules, by David Graber, for some relatively light reading about anarchism from an anthropological perspective

The Communist Manifesto 364 is a great place to start.

The Conquest of Bread 257 by Peter Kropotkin, one of the key texts of anarchist thought

Das Kapital 141 by Karl Marx, if you’re in for a doozy, this one’s long and split into three volumes (the link is only to the first), but is the foundation underpinning much of modern leftist thought.

Anarchism and Other Essays 175, by Emma Goldman, another leftist thinker who was huge in developing anarchist thought in the 20th century

They make Animal Farm seem a bit tame, don't they?

I am going to go with this recommendation for bedtime reading.

"I think Engels’ Socialism: Utopian and Scientific is peerless, and honestly a better intro read (imo) than the Manifesto. It traces the development of pre-Marxist socialist and communist thought, where Marxism breaks with and develops that thought, and gives a very good outline of dialectical materialism and of Marxist political economy."

Wow. I may have found a cure for my insomnia.

Oh and the Marxists.Org site is chock-full of similar scribblings.

You're welcome.

Oh and do desist from preaching in a superior manner MaizieD I am sorry if posts from those worried about Labour's far left regime irritate you. When I last looked we were free to air our opinions here.

Or would you prefer some thought of control - like thought police? I'd say Momentum and their deselection of Labourites who don't fit their bill is scarily close to intolerance of what people say, think or write.

Dangerous territory I'd say.

type of control.

So glad you've found something to help with your insommnia, Day6.

Haha, yes Day6 a good summing up on your part about how it sometimes gets on GN they will be comparing
Uni degrees next.
I should think most of us read books like the ‘ragged trousered philanthropist’ ‘down and out in Paris and London’ ‘the road to wigan pier’ etc when at school.
To say that life is much the same today in the UK is crazy.
You can always find examples here and there, but the difference is that back then it was commonplace, many, many people lived in abject poverty.
It’s a ploy of the extreme left to try and say that’s how it still is.

Very funny Day6 Although, I think there will be some here who won't get the joke.

Please do not panic - there is no danger of Britain having a Marxist government. There might be a possibility at the next GE of a bit of a swing to the left - and that is fair enough. The pendulum has swung too far one way and a bit of re-balancing might not come amiss.

A swing to the left will bring in a Marxist government, what a choice , not.

You don't seem too concerned about the swing to the right bringing in a fascist government, though Annie?

Oh you do use that Marxist blabla so so lightly.

Hobson's choice I said - and yet, if I had to choose between Marxism and Fascism (and we are getting VERY close to that) - I'd go for Marxism everytime.

But the UK deserves much much better than either.

Chomky though has got it right for privatisation - defund, demoralise, make people angry and use that to privatise. Then let shareholders get it for cheap, defrauding the tax payer, suck it dry, not invest or improve or maintain- then the tax payer picks up the bill to bail them out and make up all the deficiencies.

I mean it is so so brilliant as a technique- and it still works, every time- and people just can't or won't see it.

Maizie, I said ‘what a choice’ . As I have said before, do you want to be hanged or shot.

I really don't see that I should be either hung or shot, Annie. According to you lot I'm one of the Comrades. So I'll be fine.

On the other hand, I do worry about the fascist thought police...

If Corbyn got into power in the next few years, whenever we have an election then you would have a Marxist government..... something that one or two on GN fail to understand.Not a Marxist Parliament but a government.

Again- fascism is not a very good option either.

So jura do you consider Mrs May ‘ a fascist’ ?
Fortunately, although there are many fascist parties in other European countries, we don’t have them here.

You lot! Maizie ,

Facist thought police? I worry more about Marxist and Communist indoctrination in our colleges and universities.

As do I GrannyGravy

As I've said before, if labour are elected they will have to tone down some of their more extreme policies or they will soon lose the support of the electorate.
That's my bet anyway - I would put money on it ( if I had any!)

Put a ‘virtual’ tenner on it Fennel

Fennel, if Corbyn/Momentum win they will have 5 years, he can do quite a lot of damage in that time

Students have been reading Marx and Engels since publication. Very few have ever successfully masterminded a communist revolution. There is no need to worry.

Signed, a mastermind of going to the pub

Well, it is and it isn't like 100 years ago.

Of course there isn't the same poverty as then with short life expectancies. And the vast mass of people now are literate and healthy.

But there is job insecurity, homelessness, child poverty, debt to make ends meet, and hunger.

(The infamous Marx of course pointed out that poverty is relative and in our increasingly unequal society poverty is increasing.)

So the above are the problems that still need sorting out.

As regards Labour - what is in their program that looks like the dreaded Marxism? Public control of the utilities and railways?

Marxism implies control of the whole of the means of production and that would pay for the solution to the problems.

In the meanwhile we could recover the back tax from evaders, cancel Trident, and ensure that the building firms get on with construction! That should be a good start!

And yes - sweet dreams Day6