The Nasty Labour Party - what they really stand for.

Surely during World War One and Two we had conscription and post National Service it is a career choice?

It is a career choice batty. Members of the armed forces are not gang pressed

*trisha and oldbatty you both speak about suffering, refugees etc. When you have spoken to people who have picked up children's body parts, discovered atrocities which I do not think are acceptable to be discussed on an open forum, then you can preach JC.

Without these brave people we would be speaking German, my family has been decimated by 2 world wars. Blair sent my AC to Iraq!! He missed his youngest siblings baptisms!!*

There seems to some confusion between conscripts and those who choose a career in the armed forces.

It is a career choice. I am just advocating that it should be confined to those who have the capacity to make that choice; and that they are offered something worthwhile outside of the forces to make a choice between.

I do not think it is good enough to say that a vulnerable disaffected child should be presented with Hobson's choice - either you join the army and risk your life, or you doss about on the streets and your life goes down the drain.

We can do better than that if the political will is there.

Then this political will has never existed.

We have a boys public school here, there has always been military cadets there, boys younger than sixteen, are they victims of poor education ?

I doubt it annie - it is not those children that I am talking about and concerned for.

It is not the justification for past wars that is under discussion but the concern about how and who we recruit for the forces now.

Day6 To blame the forces for mental health problems and often a poor upbringing, as so many left wing posters seem to do, is shameful.
If you take someone who is vulnerable and lacks proper support, at a time when their brain is still developing, isolate them, and subject them to an intensive training programme where they are taught to kill, then ship them out at 18 to a war zone do you really think that this hasn't contributed and increased their mental health difficulties.?
There is significant information now about the adolescent brain and its development and the damage done by such treatment.

No-one has said that at all - but that the recruitment campaigns are targeted at the poorest and morst vulnerable in society, overal.
The boys from the Public School will aim straight to Officer status- as you well know.

Luckygirl is so right when she says 'I do not think it is good enough to say that a vulnerable disaffected child should be presented with Hobson's choice - either you join the army and risk your life, or you doss about on the streets and your life goes down the drain. '

those kids should be given hope, in the form of good apprenticeships and support - not be asked to give a pound or much more of flesh in return. This Hobson's choice of 'either/or' is just not acceptable or even human- and makes one think of Sierra Leone.

As said on Andrew Marr today - the recent military campaigns the UK has got involved with are based on very, very dodgy grounds. 90% of victims of war nowadays are civilians, not military.

I find it difficult to believe young people were told even when there were labour governments - either your join the army etc.

I think this thread is entering the realms of fantasy now!
No teenagers are presented with a binary choice, join the army or else stack shelves in a supermarket.Although some of those doing the shelf stacking may well fancy joining the forces as a better and more interesting way of life.
Others certainly won’t, as they may dislike authority, and enjoy their free and easy way of life.
Now that all have had their say on the modern army and services of today, ........any chance of getting back to the LP?
(Won’t hold my breath.)

The boys from the Public School will aim straight to Officer status- as you well know.

You seem to have left out the boys and girls from state schools who qualify for officer training because they have the required grades at A level.

I meant to add, They don't all come from privileged backgrounds.

As a final word child protection is a measure of a civilised society.. It's over 130 years since the minimum age for a child to work in a factory was raised to 11. Education and training is now extended untill the age of 18. It would seem only fitting if the armed forces limited their recruitment to over 18s.

GravyGranny posted this!

Education budget 2015 £84bn
Education budget 2018 £102bn

That’s hilarious as Education spending 2009-2010 (Labour) was £88bn.

So according to your own figures GG there was a net decrease of £4bn over 6 years. I rest my case.

2009-10 Expenditure (£bn)
Social protection189
Health119
Education88
Debt interest28
Defence38
Public order and safety35
Personal social services31
Housing and Environment29
Transport23
Industry, agriculture and employment20
Other72
Total Government spending671

Sooooo, the financial crash didn’t affect anything then!
There are some posters who seem to deny that anything happened back then, and that even if it did, it should not have affected anything.Unbelievable!

Financial crash brought about by fat-cat bankers you mean?

Merlot, officers don’t get killed in war ?

Public school boys that are military cadets are being trained up as officers, not as squaddies.

Did I say that, Annie?

Pro rata Annie, no!

Oh dear, Officers are first in last out - fact!!!!

Officers have that choice.

No choice, orders!!!

Choice?