The Nasty Labour Party - what they really stand for.

Education funding per pupil has actually fallen- More children, more money needed (surely everyoone can work that out!)
fullfact.org/education/spending-schools-england/
Add to this the millions wasted on Free schools which have never opened or failed
www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/tens-of-millions-wasted-on-free-schools-that-have-now-closed-a7685256.html
And you have an education system that is not only in crisis but you have a failing policy introduced for political reasons which has cost a fortune. Can anyone really say education is safe in Tory hands?

Part of the reason they don't care - is that so many of them have the choice, and send their kids to private edu - just like for health care.

Out of sight, out of mind - until it comes back and bite you very hard, one way or another.

Well with the cost of Brexit purporting to be costing 500m a week (Centre for European Reform figures) there isn't going to be extra money for schools or anything else any time soon.

Been away for four days. I admit the thread is already too long to read of of it, but my comments, which may have already been made by other people
1) Both parties are equally unpleasant, devious, unbelievable and incompetent.
2)It is a myth that only wealthy people vote Conservative. If that was so they would never have been in government. Even now their are not enough wealthy people to give them enough seats. The Conservatives draw their support from every level of society, every age group, every income level.

Can I just ask in a totally non confrontational way why people lump conscripts and people who have a career in the forces together?

Surely they are two different things. Nobody asked in World War 1 or 2 if men wanted to join up.

That isn't the same as somebody who makes an informed choice to join the forces.
I don't think you can join up and then complain because you are deployed.

Speaking purely for myself; I'd just like to say that I don't give a tinker's cuss whether soldiers, sailors or airmen joined the forces because they volunteered or were conscripted. I just know that I'm indebted to each and every one of them and I'm appalled to see them being referred to in such disrespectful terms as "a trained killer" and "career" soldiers. Whether they've joined up voluntarily or not, their lives are on the line just the same. And as for offering up a refugee worker who just happens to be gay as a comparison to bravey..... words just fail me. wtf

I can certaintly second your post MOnica . As a canvasser st general elections , council elections, Welsh Assemby elections I have met supporters of the Conservative party on council estates, small rented properties, as well as private estates , town houses, farms, Country Estates, farm workers, employees in the building trade , unemployed, and Labour Party supporters in the same areas. Far less Lib Party voters now with the exception of the Welsh AM , Kirsty is a Lib and always gets much support. Lsbour voters titled on country estates too. There is one house where the wife is a Labour supporter and the husband a conservative supporter , come general elections there are posters for both parties in the windows.

Let us not forget that many girls are joining the armed forces.

Nobody asked in World War 1 or 2 if men wanted to join up.

Not sure what you mean by that, oldbatty. Are you saying that all military personnel were conscripted?

"Informed choice" is what we have been discussing. You can be in a situation where informed choice is absent because you are conscripted, but also because you are too young, vulnerable and intellectually lacking. The latter is a cause for concern at the moment.

And no, this does not mean that all young people who choose an army career are in the latter category, but it does mean that I have a concern for those who are.

The disrespect on this thread is jaw droppingly depressing.

As to political parties - I am disappointed in them all.

No youngster can join the armed forces without their parents consent untill they are 18.

pre National Service people had no choice. Post National service they did.

Somebody who fought in WW1 or 2 is not the same as somebody who fought in the Gulf.

Its not the same scenario at all.

GG said she was proud of her son, I said I was proud of mine. Its not a competition. I didn't offer up anything.

What do you think soldiers are trained to do with their weapons?

Somebody who fought in WW1 or 2 is not the same as somebody who fought in the Gulf

No? Why not?

My maternal granny’ s first husband enlisted for WW1

At the outbreak of war, on 3 September 1939, the Military Training Act was overtaken by the National Service (Armed Forces) Act, and the first intake was absorbed into the army. This act imposed a liability to conscription of all men 18 to 41 years old. Men could be rejected for medical reasons, and those engaged in vital industries or occupations were "reserved" at a particular age beyond which no one in that job would be enlisted

Can't be bothered anymore. If you can't see the difference between this and 2018 I give up.

Thank goodness for that.

Chewbacca I think oldbatty is simply pointing out the difference in the make up of the services now and in the past! . In both WWs it was mostly conscripts who had no choice at all and came from all walks of life. Nowadays services are all people who have signed up out of choice and maybe that makes a difference. I know three youngsters who signed up because it offered security form otherwise tricky family situations and have struggled to settle once they left the army. Not necessarily anything wrong with that if there is really a choice to make. But that is only a tiny example. My DHs brothers are both retired senior officers so have also known the other end of the continuum. Anyone prepared to put their lives on the line in active service deserves a level of ongoing respect from the society they come from.

PECS ???

Bravo PECS

To return to Chris Leslie et al:

The Party chooses its representatives who will become its candidates and of course as policies change the members may want to have a different representative.

Chris Leslie voted for the Iraq war and against investigations into that war. He also voted in favour of recommissioning Trident. He has voted in favour of many liberalising policies but voted against measures to reduce tax avoidance (no idea why!). He also sometimes voted for university tuition fees (and sometimes against).

If I were in his local party I would be voting no confidence in him, not because of any support (or not) for Jeremy Corbyn but because I believe his voting record to be against the interests of the country (and othe rcountries).

Yet he was voted for in 2010 and 2017 , the reason for no confidence was - not loyal to Corbyn

Anyone prepared to put their lives on the line in active service deserves a level of ongoing respect from the society they come from.

^
This

There are three more verses in this poem on similar lines

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

I am the daughter, grand daughter, niece and grand niece of serving soldiers, conscripts and those who joined to get out from poverty and find a better life.

Five members of my family died in WW1, including one who got the gallantry medal just below the VC. Another was mentioned in dispatches in WW2. My grandfather survived the WW1 and died in January 1919, of Spanish flu, o his way home from Salonika.

None but the psychopathic choose to fight and kill people - and the armed forces do their best to exclude anyone like that. A successful army is one that never fires a shot in anger. Many of the actions the army gets involved in are peace keeping and protection like it's success in Sierra Leone and the tragedy that was Bosnia.