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Northern Ireland and Brexit

(364 Posts)
MaizieD Sat 29-Sept-18 10:42:25

An Irishman tries yet again to explain the huge Brexit problem with NI. In response to yet another airy dismissal by Boris Johnson:

Start

Patrick Kielty @patrickielty
And please.... please don't tell me it's "our money" or that the UK government would have done it anyway because I can't be bothered to take you by the hand, lead you to a corner and explain simple things in words of one syllable

1. Northern Ireland is made up of a majority of Unionists (as in the Conservative and Unionist Party) and, believe it or not, a rather large minority of Nationalists (as in Irish Nationalists)

2. These Irish Nationalists don’t see themselves as British but rather inconveniently as Irish (who knew?)

3. For over 30 years we killed each other because of these differences which means Northern Ireland is nothing like Camden or Westminster.

4. The Good Friday Agreement ended that violence by the following devious magic - Unionists were guaranteed that Northern Ireland would be part of the UK until the majority voted otherwise.

The Irish was border was removed and the island linked so Nationalists could pretend they were already living in a United Ireland (yes, Tony Blair did slight of hand much better than you)

5. Some of these Nationalists then accepted being part of the UK as their day to day lives were essentially Irish.

6. This cunning plan was sold to us on the basis that we were all part of the EU therefore fixation on nationality was so last World War.

7. Implementing the Good Friday Agreement was torturous (think Brexit with actual bombs, not metaphorical suicide vests) but we finally made peace. Yet 20 years later NI remains a divided society.

8. Thanks to your glorious Brexit vision Northern Ireland will become more divided as some form of economic border checks will become part of daily lives.

9. If those checks take place between NI and Ireland, the Nationalists who were once happy being part of the UK will change their mind.

10. If they take place in the Irish Sea some Unionists will be livid. However they'll still support being part of the UK (the clue is in the Unionist bit)

11. Your Brexit lies have opened a Pandora’s box for Northern Ireland. It's one reason why the majority of people in NI voted to remain in the EU (almost as if they knew more about the fragile equilibrium of their politics than you)

12. Barely mentioned before Brexit, a border poll is now inevitable thanks to your monumental ignorance.

13. When that poll is eventually held the Nationalists who were once content being part of a Northern Ireland within the UK and EU will vote to leave the UK to feel as Irish and European as they did before Brexit.

14. The poll will be much closer thanks to your Brexit folly and could easily be lost by Unionists, breaking up the UK.

15. Any break up of the Union will be your fault (a tad inconvenient as a member of the Conservative and er, Unionist party)

16. The EU is not responsible for your blundering lack of foresight. Like most people in Northern Ireland they were happy with the status quo.

17. By the time the penny drops that you can’t preserve the Union you want without the one you don’t, it will be too late.

18. You will be remembered not as the Churchillian visionary you delude yourself to be but the ignoramus who triggered the break up of the UK.

19. If there’s any justice all this will come to pass when you're Prime Minister so you can finally swim in the constitutional sewage you've created (though we all know you’ll be in Nice with your trotters up)

20. Meantime, if you’re so concerned about keeping Northern Ireland totally aligned with the rest of the UK where’s your support for our same sex marriage and women’s right to choose? Your silence is deafening.

End

In a nutshell, so to speak grin

mcem Sat 09-Mar-19 19:37:37

Alexa isn't your post utterly snobbish, disrespectful and dismissive?

aggie Sat 09-Mar-19 20:07:51

and rubbish

varian Sat 09-Mar-19 20:32:12

The prime minister’s proposed Brexit compromise will hinge on what happens to the so-called backstop – the insurance policy that ensures there will be no hard border on the island of Ireland and could result in Northern Ireland remaining in the EU customs union and the single market.

And there is a growing sense that failure to find a compromise on the issue will hurt all communities in Northern Ireland, and that the stance taken by the DUP in urging a hard Brexit may be becoming increasingly unpopular. A poll for the Irish Times suggested more than half of Protestant voters think the party is doing a “bad job”.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/09/belfast-brexit-enticements-on-offer-dup-will-back-her

andycameron69 Sat 09-Mar-19 22:47:10

gorgeous

mcem Sat 09-Mar-19 22:51:20

Inane. And I certainly don't mean varian's post!

Joelsnan Sat 09-Mar-19 23:36:01

mcem aggie
Deary me is there any need for your rudeness to another poster?

mcem Sat 09-Mar-19 23:56:24

Is there any need to inflict endlessly banal repetitions on readers? You say rude. I say succinct! Read the posts that elicited the responses. Do you believe they are remotely reasonable?

andycameron69 Sun 10-Mar-19 08:56:13

I adore the kindness here, so fab belonging.

19 days and we are out.

good bye evil EU

democracy is awesome.

so happy

19 days to go...

great times for GB

do have a fabulous weekend

MaizieD Sun 10-Mar-19 11:20:19

A huge twitter thread (80+ tweets) on pre-referendum warnings about the probable adverse effect of a Leave vote on the Irish border. No-one could say we weren't warned.

twitter.com/BorderWarnings/status/1099013638189400064

Though, disgracefully, IMO, the then Northern Ireland Secretary campaigned for Leave. She really should have known better but putting incompetent ignoramuses into ministerial posts seems to be a tory speciality. The current NI Secretary is no better than her predecessor...

It even contains some input from one T May in the days when she was campaigning for Remain. However, she seems to have completely forgotten that she said the Irish border would be a problem in her ill judged haste to eradicate from Britain anything with the letters EU in it (particularly if 'EU' had the word 'immigrants' after it) from the UK.

varian Sun 10-Mar-19 13:15:55

Top Northern Ireland firms warn PM of a no-deal 'disaster'

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/top-northern-ireland-firms-warn-pm-of-a-nodeal-disaster-37896238.html

varian Sun 10-Mar-19 13:30:43

Young people in Northern Ireland have grown up with a unique ability to identity as British, Irish, or both, thanks to the peace agreement that ended decades of conflict.

But after Brexit, some people think the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland could once more become a scene of violence, and there is uncertainty about what rights Irish and British passport holders will have.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/47503393/people-here-live-in-both-countries

Nanah67 Sun 10-Mar-19 14:16:53

I live in the ROI and commute a lot to the north. Only started to travel north after the Good Friday agreement. Many people go back and forth daily for work and are in limbo at the moment. Leave or remain clarity is badly needed and it would help if the northern assembly was restored. There are lots of ins and outs to be resolved but custom posts will be a pure nightmare. I hope and pray that a resolution is found this week and the Dup do the right thing.

aggie Sun 10-Mar-19 14:49:10

Joelsnan yes

Alexa Sun 10-Mar-19 14:55:16

"Alexa isn't your post utterly snobbish, disrespectful and dismissive?"

I don't respect divisive actions like the apprentice boys marching. The fife and drums are a good sound a pity about the belief system that accompanies the marchers.

Social classes and education levels are matters of fact,

MargaretX Sun 10-Mar-19 15:31:02

I seem to hear that M.Barnier is determined that nothing will be allowed to endanger the Friday aggreement. He has said it 20 times in my hearing when I listen to him on the German News.

The person who is not listening is Mrs May.

suzied Sun 10-Mar-19 16:12:17

Brexit is really an English/Tory idea - the Irish are just an inconvenience. ( and the Scots obviously).

andycameron69 Sun 10-Mar-19 17:35:11

My spirits are high, looking forward to GB independence from evil EU.

A good hard proper out Brexit.

celebrate

wine
brew

varian Sun 10-Mar-19 18:25:34

GB means Great Britain, the largest of the British Isles. It does not include Northern Ireland.

Joelsnan Sun 10-Mar-19 18:34:17

suzied
I maybe your previous post should have been prefixed by:
In my opinion...
It certainly aint mine.

annep1 Sun 10-Mar-19 21:26:14

Thank you Joelsnan

varian Fri 15-Mar-19 11:01:00

Not everyone in NI supports the (predominantly Protestant) Unionist Parties of the (predominantly Catholic) Nationalist parties. The non-sectarian Alliance Party has support from all communities.

Alliance Party Deputy Leader and Brexit Spokesperson, Stephen Farry MLA, has criticised "shambolic" parliament for failing to outline a clear way forward on Brexit, after MPs supported the principle of extending Article 50, while at the same time failing to determine an alternative way forward to the Withdrawal Deal.

With just over two weeks to go, Dr Farry welcomed moves by some to push for a People's Vote, adding the Labour Party had been exposed for playing political games on the issue.

He said: "It is shocking that Parliament cannot determine what course of action that it wishes to take on Brexit. It is very good at determining what it is against, but not what it is in for.

"It is simply not good enough for Parliament to say that it wants to see an extension of Article 50 without indicating what it is for or even determining a different process for working out a different way forward.

"The European Union will need to see clear evidence of a new approach if there is to be any such extension.

"I welcome that a People's Vote has been tested in Parliament, and would congratulate Sarah Wollaston, the Independent Group and the Liberal Democrats plus others for standing up for democracy and the right of people to have their say in this radically different context to 2016.

"There may be other opportunities to test support in that regard, but equally another chance may never come. All MPs will be accountable for their votes if UK leaves EU against the will of the people. The abstainers may not get another chance, and the Labour Party have been exposed for playing political games through Jeremy Corbyn talking of his support for a second referendum at the end of the debate having passed the opportunity to vote for it.

"For Alliance, the Withdrawal Agreement including the backstop remains the bottom line, and the backstop does need to be banked especially in light of the uncertainty of alternative options."

allianceparty.org/article/2019/0012246/shambolic-parliament-cannot-make-up-its-mind-on-brexit

annep1 Fri 15-Mar-19 11:30:25

Not everyone in NI supports the (predominantly Protestant) Unionist Parties of the (predominantly Catholic) Nationalist parties. The non-sectarian Alliance Party has support from all communities.
Unfortunately when it comes to elections in Northern Ireland very little changes.

mcem Fri 15-Mar-19 11:56:58

Isn't it the case as that as long as FPTP is in place, sizeable minorities will always be swamped by the majority, however small? ?

annep1 Fri 15-Mar-19 12:23:03

True mcem but it's annoying that people say they want change in N I and yet the vast majority still vote DUP or SF.

andycameron69 Sun 17-Mar-19 07:58:41

a lovely no deal, WTO brexit is coming, very good news, simple to understand.
grin