Is today’s Brexit the same as we voted for in 2016.

Maisie why would I want to belong to a club where the “founder” members were vehemently against me joining in the first place.

I do find it srange that you were apparently against joining GG but were a remainer until your children changed your mind.,

Nonnie In answer to your question, I'm sure I saw a bedraggled looking woman answering ND's description wandering around the Australian rainforest, muttering to herself that she was a celebrity and had voted Brexit but still couldn't find her way out.

I was several weeks to young to vote in the referendum on entry to the EEC. Not sure how I would have voted.

I think The Lisbon and Maastricht treaties should have had more public consultations.

I listened, watched and read a lot before this latest referendum and as I am not a great fan of change for change sake I was going to vote remain.

We had lots of family discussions leading up to the referendum, where AC put their points extremely eloquently. Towards the end of the campaign the fact that the remain side repeatedly told us the electorate that if we were intending to vote leave we were amongst other things, stupid, uneducated or racist and continued to talk down to “leavers”, and the fact that my AC and GC will be living with the result I voted leave.

Is that comprehensive enough for you trisher?

I feel as if I have given an extremely thorough explanation.

It's an explanation but I don't think your 'remain" stance was very strongly held GG.
And do you not think that some of the leavers were all the things you describe them as? I'm not saying they all were but to deny that element is the same as saying there isn't ny racism in this country, when there obviously is.

trisher there are “isms” in every Country on Earth, racism, sexism, ageism etc., always have been always will be.

This does not make it right but please detail how you think it can be eradicated.

I shouldn't think there are any clubs that we would join for life though trisher. You're right or course that there are contracts that prevent people setting up services or seeking employment with a competitor within a certain area but the EU is, to all intense and purposes a club.

Club membership is usually dictated by shared ideals, beliefs and/or interests. The EU no longer resembles the Common Market and it's reasonable to argue that for those who voted to leave this particular club, that the EU's ideals, beliefs and interests do not meet with their own.

It's also worth remembering IMO that for many who voted in the referendum, voting for membership or not of the Common Market was never an option and whose to say that some of the remainers aren't stupid and uneducated.

Funny how remainers always state that leave voters were racist, ill educated and had no idea what they were voting for!!!!!
Do they always say that? Not on here . Not by me. It’s the leavers who feel they have to preface their explanation with that which I find amusing. There are plenty of stupid people around you see them driving on the roads every day on their phones and bellowing at their kids in the supermarket, who’s to say how such people voted. Ditto racists more of them crawling out from under their stones, and yes they should be tackled and challenged , not just say they will always be with us, so that’s ok then.

GG13 How can racism be eradicated?. It probably can't be but one thing we can do is to ensure that those people with views we disagree with are challenged and they are not allowed to make any racist statements without being pulled up. Given the very racist and offensive remarks made by some of the people who wanted to leave are you saying it was wrong for anyone to point out this? And I agree that not all racists are ill educated, some of them went to public schools.

crystaltipps- where in my post did I say that racism was ok, I actually said it wasn’t!!!!

As for leavers being told they are uneducated and racist on gransnet you only have to go back and reread the Brexit threads to see that it is repeatedly stated.

It’s wrong to say it’s “always said” as it obviously isn’t.

I didn't tell anybody they were racist but some comments were sailing pretty close to the wind....

Perhaps not said by you crystaltipps but yes it's been said more times than I care to count on GN. Are you not familiar with the tone of many posts here that deal with Brexit?

I'm sorry that you find it amusing that leavers feel the need to declare that they are neither racist, uneducated or just stupid when it should be obvious that the reason they do so, is because those are the things they're accused of.

I don't think (but correct me if I'm wrong) that I have ever seen a post from a Remainer on Gransnet accusing all Leave voters of being uneducated and racist.

It has been pointed out that analysis of the voting patterns in the referendum showed conclusively that better educated people tended to vote Remain and poorly educated people voted Leave. That is an overall pattern but obviously there are exceptions. I believe that some of the ultra-brexiters in the Tory Party went to Eton and Oxford, so you could say they were well educated, like the Leave voter on Gransnet who I remember boasting that she had "a double first from Cambridge" There might even be some poorly educated folk who voted Remain, but nevertheless the correlation between a poor level of education and a tendency to vote leave was well established.

Likewise it was shown that immigration was a big issue for many Leave voters and those with racist attitudes were pretty certain to vote to Leave the EU. No-one has ever said that all leave voters are racists.

Crystaltipps I posted “repeatedly stated” not always said, if you intend to comment on and repost my comments please get them correct.

Thank you

No one knows what lies behind the veil/covered face. A man could lurk beneath, who knows

this sort of nonsense for example?

Or people not knowing the difference between Eastern Europeans and Roma.

Or people not knowing the difference between Eastern Europeans and Roma
who has ever posted that on GN?
I don't think I've ever seen it.

Sorry I don't have the energy to read back, maybe tomorrow.

don't worry, if you find it well and good, but I can't ever remember reading anything like that on here in a couple of years.
But then, I don't read everything!
and if true, then surely just one person?

Just popped back, the Roma, Eastern European question came up on I think a Brexit thread. It was me that posted I thought the people in question were Eastern European, and with the wisdom of gransnetters local to my area I think it was concluded that they were Roma people and Albanians.

GrannyGravy13
Funny how remainers always state that leave voters were racist, ill educated and had no idea what they were voting for!!!!! this was your post at 7.35 where you said “remainers always state “ this was your quote I was referring to . Get your quotes right. Can’t help if you contradict yourself.

I stand corrected Crystaltipps I thought you were referring to my post this evening.

Oh for an edit button, as that post of 7.34 should also have said “often”

Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Thank you GrannyGravy

So it was not the case at all that you were confused about Eastern Europeans and Roma.

I think it was me who was taken to task for mixing up Eastern Europeans, Roma, Romanians and Albanians etc. And black people, and Jews, and Muslims and Christians. And Hindus and Buddhists and Sikhs .et.
I was trying to make a point about the multi racial, or multi ethnic nature of the area we live in. All of us live within half a square mile of eachother.
So is it ok to be an ethnicist, but not a racist?

Fennel an easy mistake to make when you probably chat to all of your neighbours.
Presumably you are being judgmental too - whether he/she is friendly or not friendly.

Interesting Twitter this morning.

At the referendum did we have an impact assessment of the affect of Brexit. No
Did we know the affect on :
Loss of oversea staff in NHS. No
Loss of many doctors & reduced opportunity to recruit more doctors? No
Have a full knowledge of the Custom Union? Noon
Impact on Ni ? No

Those few questions can easily be added with many more on how unprepared we were on knowing the full facts about Brexit, at the referendum. Thus another major reason for the changes in public opinion in the latest polls as more facts come to light about the unknown gamble we are being asked to take on our children’s future.