Brexit induced poverty. Worth it?

Jo Johnson as leader perhaps? One in the eye for his vile brother, too [sibling rivalry and all that!]...

Crystaltipps - Is it not the responsibility of the British Food Standards Agency to ensure our food meets minimum standards?

maizied you have, to my mind, summed everything up perfectly. I am no fan of Mrs May but by golly she is preferable to the self serving goons around her. I am sorry (actually I am not) but anyone who seriously thinks that Boris or Gove or Leadsom or Rees-Mogg is a better candidate.....you need to give your head a wobble.

Absolutely agree MD and re your final paragraph, the QE you refer to was a decision of MC to avoid precisely some of the damage that would otherwise have resulted from the referendum result. It’s like the millenium bug, some people say there you go just fear mongering because predicted problems didn’t emerge without realising that it was all the work done beforehand that averted the problems. MC is not scaremongering. He produced a report that gave the who,e range of possible scenarios and our right wing press just decided to highlight one of the extremes - a no deal rapid exit. MC has had a very illustrious career and is credited with a major role in Canada avoiding the worst excesses of the global recession in 2008. JRM ‘s criticism of him yesterday was frankly laughable and totally uninformed - he called him a second tier Canadian politician. MC has never been a politician ( in the sense of being elected) and JRM misunderstood his title of ‘deputy minister’ when he was working for the Canafisn Government - which means in Canadian, permanent secretary.

What Brexiteers want is deregulation so that the U.K. becomes a haven for tax avoidance, gambling and money laundering. No industry or manufacturing- we’ve sold all that off. The few hundred fishermen left who are British will be able to over fish until there aren’t any fish left no quotas and that will keep them happy. We won’t buy anything from Europe - all our food will be airfreighted in from Albania or wherever we can get it cheaply no minimum standards to meet. We’ll spend our afternoons in Weatherspoons and holiday in our gardens. Bring it on ?

David if she had resigned earlier it would have made her look ‘bad’. That matters to her more than anything else. She’s all fur coat and no knickers IMO.

BUT if the vote goes against her, she can say ‘OK, did my best, can’t do any more. Let someone else see if they can do better.’

And because they can’t and there’s no better option she can resign with ‘honour’ (in her eyes) and watch her successor fail too. She’s onto a win-win option.

An interesting point of view Maisie but end result is if we do leave by whatever method the poor are going to get stuffed again!

I suppose that is OK with you and all the Remainers.

It's fine by me that we are honouring our obligations to the EU (and to renege on them would really stuff up our ability to negotiate trade deals, no-one would trust us to honour our obligations)

The tiny percentage of national expenditure that goes to the EU has always been fine by me; we've benefited from it over the years.

The thing that amuses me is this touching belief that if we were to repatriate this money it would be used for the benefit of the nation. What happened to the £350million a week for the NHS? "Oh no", cried the Leave leaders the day after the ref. "We didn't mean that it would be done, it was just an illustration of what we might do with the entirely mythical £350million it" (translate as 'we had no intention at all of doing it; Suckers')

What happened to the North Sea oil money bonanza in the Thatcher years? It went on tax cuts to business and the wealthy. Did it benefit ordinary voters at all?

Six year's worth of EU contributions went immediately after the referendum as £60 billion was pumped into the economy by QE to support the falling pound. Now another £40billion (4 years worth) to Leave. Nice excuse for the government to carry on with their vicious 'austerity for the poor' and 'sell off the NHS' programmes on the grounds that Brexit has cost so much that we just can't afford to do anything else.

But hey, blue passports and sovereignty...

If the deal is accepted we are going to be paying them a lot more than 40bn because every divergence from EU rules will carry a price tag, EFTA members do pay annual contributions.

In case of a no deal tariffs will reflect the difference

TM may well loose the vote, resign, no chance, she is going to push it all the way, a vote of "No Confidence", that will concentrate Tory minds, if she looses that she has 2 weeks to regain support before leaving.

If she does that a Norway type deal is likely, except we are not Norway.

EU will sit back and watch.

If only fingers crossed ?

There are three options.
Take this deal. How? MPs won’t back it
Crash out
Go back to the people with either a new vote or a general election.

Personally I think May will lose the vote and resign.

Labaik we've not left yet and we are still paying billions to the EU and if our useless weak excuse for a PM has her way will be giving them another 40billion but I suppose that is OK with you and all the Remainers.

...like all that money for the NHS; a myth, a myth...…

But lemmings do commit mass suicide
a myth, laibaik, a myth.

Lazigirl
If you prick them do they not bleed Jalima?

well, I'm not out to poison anyone, or for revenge!
As for tickling - no, no, no!

You'd need quite a long needle before they bleed, I think!

Oddly enough UK fared much better from the crash than many other EU members because sterling dropped in value.
It gave manufacturing an advantage and exports were more competitive and imports didn't go up as much as expected.

If we were using Euros it would have been much worse.

All the forecasts say any "deal" will mean a fall in growth, deny it if you want. That aside TMs deal will mean that we can do exactly as we wish AS LONG AS THE EU SAYS OK.

Madness, Turkeys voting for Christmas.

I can't understand why they choose to ignore J K Rowling, David Attenborough, Alan Sugar etc

Alan Sugar maybe - he is a businessman, but the other two would only have personal opinions which are no more valid than anyone else's, surely?

To be fair to Mark Carney he did say it wasn't a forecast just a possibility so maybe he learnt something from his last effort to warn us of the pitfalls of Brexit. Although why would you bother to warn us of a possibility, except they think we're all too thick to think for ourselves.

This is the cabinet media campaign which has been leaked. Today, 11th, the news is all about the economy. Tomorrow the headlines will be on security. 30th is international trade, 1st Dec is digital, 2nd is the deal itself, 3rd is money, 4th is immigration, 5th is transport, 6th is industrial strategy, 7th is Brexit for the whole UK, 8th is consumers, 9th is the May v Corbyn debate, 10th is agriculture and fishing, and the vote itself on 11th.

I can't bear the thought, I think I am going to avoid all news programmes for the next fortnight, or leave the Country!

stree it's a bit rich criticising May and her remainer colleagues. Not even the most fervent brexiteer can think that David Davis, Liam Fox et al did a great job?

It bothers me that someone with such power as Mark Carney ( who is a Canadian ) and in charge of the Bank of England should scaremonger and almost spread more panic throughout industry .

And, even if people are happy to ignore Mark Carney I can't understand why they choose to ignore J K Rowling, David Attenborough, Alan Sugar etc

But lemmings do commit mass suicide; sheep only do it that in Thomas Hardy novels...

Not sure there’s that much difference to be fair Labaik ( urban dictionary speaking ) I do know that a sheep is a woolly mammal and a lemming is a rodent, but they both have a habit of following the masses .