Brexit induced poverty. Worth it?

Well JRM will be better off whatever the final deal is

Anja. Actually I quite admire TM, not because I agree with her but because of the way with all it rats deserting the floundering ship, and it is floundering, she has stuck to the task.
"Fur coat and no knickers," no, she's no tart, she won't quit

Dido's song comes to mind "I won't go down with this ship I won't put my hands up and surrender. There will be no white flag at my door".
Please someone get rid of her. As for Gove and Andrea Leadsom they are a disgrace not thinking of their country only themselves siding with May and selling us down the river.

No Jal just accurate.
It's not fair, though, to judge a person just because of their family.
I know a couple of very nice, responsible, hardworking people who each have a sibling who has been in prison.

One girl who was a school friend many years ago - a rather staid and sensible girl who worked hard and school and wanted to be a doctor - had a sister who dressed and behaved like a tart (and went on to become a prostitute). They couldn't have been more different.

I didn’t judge him because of his family I said he was a member of that entitled opportunistic family and by inference acting true to form. JJ is a political minnowand in no way leadership material

Corbyn wouldn’t vote for anything that May brought back from Brussels, Labour ( the front bench) after vacillating for two years now say 6 ( impossible ) tests or nothing, knowing full well that no negotiating team could have complied with that.All done in the name of forcing an election of course.No pulling together in Parliament for the good of the UK from any political party.
I think this particular withdrawal bill is poor but probably the best for the unity needed for all sides of the Leave/Remain camps.There is still time to alter a few things, but if Labour keeps up the refusal to back anything, and Conservative MP’s won’t back it either, because in their view it isn’t a hard enough deal......then what? I don’t think there will be another referendum, both Leaders don’t want one and they take a long time to organise anyway.
We could end up simpy leaving without a deal, and in that case it will be on both Labour and Conservative MP’s heads.

Why should we leave with a deal that will leave us worse off than staying in the EU? What exactly is the point of it all. Leaving with no deal would make us even worse off. I would imagine that Labours 6 points are valid ones that mean we won't be worse off. Why wasn't it on the side of 'that bus'; hey, lets leave the EU and be worse off; it will be a Titanic success'...

If all the Tory MPs supported May, it would get through. Opposition parties are actually allowed to oppose you know lemon so in my book, if it doesn’t get through I blame the Tory MPs who don’t support their government! And if TM wanted national unity, she could have included opposition members( from all parities) in the discussions.

..and the DUP; just remind me how much it has cost the country to bribe them into supporting her..

Some short term economic downturn was always on the cards after leaving the EU, but it should free us up to do whatever deals in trade we want to in the future, something definitely worth having.
Having our own immigration laws....also well worth having.
Once the money that we are obliged to pay the EU is completed, then more money that stays with us.
The money ‘on the side of the bus’ is a true reflection of what we pay into the EU , but a fraction of it did come back to us of course, and we would never have paid every penny of it into the NHS in any case, nevertheless it is money that in future remains here in the UK.

Lemongrove
No pulling together in Parliament for the good of the UK from any political party.
It’s just your opinion that this Brexit deal will be best for the good of the U.K.
Why would Labour want to vote for a deal that will make the U.K. worse off for years to come, restrict our ability to travel, work and live in Europe, give us NO say in EU rules, leave us open to American trade deals which would threaten a takeover of the NHS as well as reducing food standards, limit immigration so causing recruitment problems in agriculture and the NHS?

Opposition parties are supposed to opposed when they think something is bad for the country, but not simply to try and overturn something as important as this, not because it’s bad for the country but to get into number ten ( not that I think they would get in anyway.)
parliament voted for the referendum, and Parliament also voted to trigger article 50, now a great many of these same MP’s don’t wish to honour the results of the referendum, or are grandstanding, jockeying for position and playing political games.

MPs voted for an Advisory referendum. The Government then decided to abide by the referendum result.
You don’t think Theresa May and her Government play political games then ?

Labour are playing a cynical game to get into power, and actually mostlyharm it isn’t just my opinion ( what, just one person? ) that this Brexit deal is the best that we can get.If we could have got a better one, no doubt we would have done so, but this deal seems the best we can get with all what’s been going on over the last two years of Parliament infighting.
We will leave the EU next March, either with this deal, this deal slightly tweaked, or no deal and trade under WTO rules.Parliament will decide.

No mostly the governemt didn’t decide, it was Parliament that decided.

If anyone remembers, it was Corbyn who wanted to trigger article 50 virtually the next day.

As Jo Johnson said to Peston last night 'Govt policy is govt policy...until it isn't...'...

No Lemongrove. It was the Tory Government that decided to make the referendum binding.
The Government’s “Remain” leaflet said that the referendum decision would be implemented.
fullfact.org/media/uploads/Leaflet.PNG

Parliament voted for an advisory Referendum.

Legally Referendums are advisory only.

I don't think anyone on the remain side is looking to Corbyn for anything resembling leadership or even an opinion. He is a very weak opposition leader and has sat on the fence for so long he must have an arse full of splinters. But this is not about him, it is about the feuding Tory party and the cataclysmic mess they have led this country into. Why are people do blinded by this propaganda that they just shout "project fear" when anyone points out the blindingly obvious? Even the official brexiteers are talking about damage limitation, about it (unnecessary economic damage etc) being 'Worth it in the end ". I keep hoping I will have a Bobby Ewing moment, step out of the shower and find it has all been a bad dream.

Mostlyharmless we were never told at the time of the referendum that it would only be an 'advisory' exercise. If advisory was the intention why go to the trouble and expense of holding a referendum? the data could have been sought elsewhere. Just as with a General election we do not work on best of three.
Your argument that it was the Tory government who unilaterally made the result binding fails because a general election returned the Conservatives with a leave mandate and a parliamentary vote of all parties reurned a positive vote for the triggering of Article 50.

we were never told at the time of the referendum that it would only be an 'advisory' exercise.

Maybe you wanted to miss that bit, but Parliament was told that it was advisory, not only in the briefing note to MPs but also it was explicitly stated in Parliament by David Liddington when parliament wanted to put a 'supermajority' clause in the Referendum Act. David Cameron had no right whatsoever to say that the result would be binding; that was for Parliament to decide and it didn't make that decision.

a general election returned the Conservatives with a leave mandate

It actually didn't. May had a reduced majority and was only able to form a government with the support of the bribed DUP.

Please don't trot out the old chestnut about Labour having leaving the EU in its manifesto too, therefore anyone who voted Labour was also supporting Leave. The GE was about far more than Brexit. Remainers who wanted to get the tories out and who wanted a more socially fair country had very little choice but to vote Labour to attempt to do this.

And wasn't A50 triggered before the GE?

Yes; I find it frustrating that I didn't vote LibDem as I felt at the time that it was a wasted vote and I am now being told that voting for Labour meant that I supported Brexit. It was the only alternative to allowing May to have total power to do whatever she liked. If Brexit was, for some people, a vote against austerity cuts, then my Labour vote was meant to be a vote against Brexit. Sick of people including me in 'the will of the people' etc...

Labaik:^ Why should we leave with a deal that will leave us worse off than staying in the EU? What exactly is the point of it all.^

There is no point. My belief is that the government has been so weak and so eager to show that they are listening to people's concerns: ”We shall let you have your say and we will implement whatever you decide”. That let the government off the hook. Take the immigration issue which many leave voters cited as a major concern, many EU workers are now returning home but non-EU workers are arriving to replace them. It seems Brits will not do certain low paid jobs. Whose fault is that? I have spoken to many EU-nationals in the UK. They don't feel welcome any more. How can they when they are told they are queue jumpers and deserve a 'hostile environment'. Shameful.