I predict.....

Anja
I couldn't have made it clearer.
I wrote 'I love GB'.
GB is Great Britain (as if you didn't know)
You are stirring and I'm not biting.

...and I am now GabriellaG54.
GG is (so someone here said up-
thread) 'A bloke from Widnes.
That isn't me.

Liebour are often rabble rousers, trouble-makers of the first water.

GabrielaG54 assuming you are British you grew up in a society fought for and built by the Labour Party. The NHS which has cared for you, the education system that taught you, the housing policies which provided social housing for the poorest, set standards and provided grants to upgrade sub standard housing, the nationalised industries which provided utilities and transport were all provided by the Labour Party. They are steadily being eroded by the Tories. And what I find most offensive is that having benefitted from these you would now deny them to younger people and abuse a party largely responsible for them.

That’s living in the past trisher if you have to go back 50 years or more to laud the LP.

Corbyn and McDonnell are Marxists, nobody is saying that every LP MP is!
If you deny that then your head is firmly in the sand.

Sorry. I think we have first dibs on granny 23 for NS's successor as first minister. Now as for Ruth Davidson who earned much praise during the referendum and GE, you could try to persuade her to move South and stand for Westminster. Before long she'd be Tory leader. However she has more sense and, after her maternity leave will return to her post in Holyrood.
Given the choice, opting for Holyrood over Westminster seems eminently sensible!

Ruth Davidson you must be joking ?

lemon when I last looked the NHS was still working (in spite of the Tories), schools were still run on the comprehensive system introduced by Labour. Social housing has largely gone of course but its demise is much mourned by many, and the homeless families now living on the streets or forcing councils to pay fortunes to unscrupulous B&B owners are proof of its necessity.
As for Marxists some LP politicians in the past were far to the left of Corbyn and it was their concept of how society should operate that opened up opportunities to the poor and working class. You know, those people who reaped the benefit and made progress because of those policies but now profess themselves afraid of anyone slightly left of centre.

The NHS was started during a coalition gov not a labour majority government.

Labours RUINOUS last go at handling the NHS pretty much set it up for privatisation by making it an inefficient money pit and running it into the ground. The waste of Nhs resources during that time was eye watering

Do not tell those of us who vote against labour that we dont care about the NHS. The NHS can be sustainable and cost efficient when it is managed as such.

Coalition labour is centrist labour (as it is forced to be) and good things came of that.

Momentum is NOT centrist labour.. it shouldn't even share the same name!!

Where do you get these notions about the NHS & Labour from, notanan? Serious question.

Following a link on here led me to a YouTube video by Ruth Davidson commenting on the Brexit negotiations.
In it she stated that in any negotiation your first thought is "be prepared to walk away"
This is how we have spent our lives, whether it be houses, boats, cars, antique furniture etc.
All this misery would have been over and done with now if we had done this 2 yrs ago.
Common sense would have had to prevail on both sides. Yes, it would have been difficult for a while but then both sides would have come to their senses and agreed trade deals, medicine, security, etc etc.
And, as Micheal Howard said at the weekend: sort each problem out as it comes up in isolation instead of trying to unscramble the whole picture.
BTW, I don't expect my view to be popular.

Labours RUINOUS last go at handling the NHS pretty much set it up for privatisation by making it an inefficient money pit and running it into the ground. The waste of Nhs resources during that time was eye watering

I would have to agree notanan - the NHS was not safe in the hands of Labour.
Anyone who believes it was does not know, or is ignoring, the true picture.

I am not saying that the Tories are any better btw.

Petra it sounds sensible to me.

It comes down to the fact that we are one of only 3 nett contributors to the EU budget, we have (TM’s Civil Servants) to my knowledge never played “that hand”.

notanan2 are you seriously proposing that the NHS was not aLabour concept and in particular the concept ofAneurin Bevin?
As for how it did under Labour
Some 43 walk-in centres had been opened since 1997, close to workplaces. If they wanted to see their own GP, patients were promised they would get access to a nurse within 24 hours and a doctor within 48 hours - targets that were 97% hit by March 2004. NHS Direct took 6.4m telephone calls a year and NHS Online, the website, 6.5m hits a year.

Meanwhile, two indicators of better care on which the government fixed its sights were cancer and heart disease. In the fight against cancer, 1,000 extra specialists ensured that 99% of patients saw a consultant within two weeks, up from only 63% in 1997. The National Institute for Clinical Excellence (Nice) approved 15 drugs that had previously been refused as too expensive. The number of MRI and CT scanners doubled after 2000. The result? Cancer deaths fell and survival rates improved
You might care to look at waiting lists and targets now.

GrannyGravy
As you know we have walked away from the £1. something billion invested in the Galileo project.
Did you know that 2 tracking stations for Galileo are *on our land, the Falkland Islands and Ascension.
We can turn this off any time we want: have any of the numpties in the 'negotiating' team thought of using this as bargaining chip, I very much doubt it, they couldn't punch their way out of a paper bag

The Tories voted 21 times - yes 21 times against the formation of the NHS including second and third readings.

I know it’s ridiculous isn’t it!!! ??

My post was in reply to Petra

"As you know we have walked away from the £1. "
Because we never joined the euro we have never been a true member of the EU.

I don't think that was what petra meant Fennel, I thought she meant the £1.something billion (in GBP) we had invested in the Galileo project.

Fennel
I assume your post @ 19.23 was referring to my post @18.56.
I said: "as you know we have walked away from the £1. something billion invested in the Galileo project
I did not say we have walked away from the £1
As there are 19 countries in the euro are you saying that the other 8 countries aren't true members either?

My keyboard doesn't have a Euro sign - just a $ and a $
German company, keyboard made in China

notanan2 are you seriously proposing that the NHS was not aLabour concept

No Im not. I am saying that not only labour voters care about the NHS. Everyone cares about the NHS we just disagree re how it can best be maintained. Pretty much every other kind of voter other than momentum supporters gets that we all care, we just disagree on how best to tackle issues.

IMO labour works best when it is centre left, or when it is forced to be more centrist due to coalition. That is when labour ideas become practical and applicable as well as idealistic.

Right now it is just straight up divisive

Its just so boring
"If you dont vote labour you dont care about the nhs and the poor"
No. I do care. AND I think momentum labour majority would be disastrous in relation to those issues. I vote against labour because I care about the NHS, and housing, and welfare, and dont want labour running us all into the bloody ground!