I predict.....

trisher look at any party's manifesto: they all have more or less similar headings just with different approaches because ALL VOTERS CARE ABOUT THE KEY ISSUES. health being one of them. Thats the whole point WE ALL CARE.

Disagreeing with momentum re how to address key issues is not the same thing as not caring about key issues

I think labour would turn the NHS to ash if the got it right now. I also think labour voters care just as much as me about the NHS I just dont agree re game plan! Sadly labour voters dont return the favour..

Where do you get these notions about the NHS & Labour from, notanan? Serious question.

From labours own actions and words.

So do you admit that under this Tory government NHS waiting lists have increased, targets are not being met and the service is being run down, most likely so that the best bits can be sold off to private companies?
That the numbers of people using food banks and the number of homeless have increased? That there is a huge housing crisis because private sector rents are rising faster than most people can cope with?
That the jobless figures are being manipulated through the use of zero hours contracts (can someone working 1 hour a week really be said to have a job?)
That universal credits are unfit for purpose and are driving people to despair and even death?
I could go on but do you really think these are the result of a caring party?

This is why the labour movement under JC has become so toxic

Rather than as in the pre JC days appreciating that your neighbour/brother/friend is decent and cares in their own way, but it may just be that their way is different to your way and you strongly disagree with them re what should be done about these issues you both care about (and how it should be done)....the done thing now is just to write off anyone who disagrees re approach as not caring because THE ONLY way to care is to get behind JC...apparently..

notanan you may care but you are deluded if you imagine all Tories do. They are the party of Jacob Rees Mogg. They believe in a low tax economy where services are cut to the bone. How does that square with caring for the NHS?

apologies petra!
I have an inbuilt memory of talking to a man at the woodyard in France about this where we were buying some fence posts . In my primitive french.
He asked me - why didn't the british join the euro? I assumed that this was a very important issue for the French. Which it is.
I had to think for some time and then replied 'parce que nous sommes une race insulaire, independente."
Which we are finding out to our cost.

Trisher labour cannot forever coast on the default of being the "not tory party"

Tories being bad does not make labour good.
They are both bad, in different ways.
I think labour is worse. Thats not the same thing as saying I <3 Tories, don't you get that?

notanan2 that is delusional. Aneurin Bevin hated the Tories
he had a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. "So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin
The things that are said now are moderate by contrast.

The Labour party has presented policies which would acheive its aims. As the opposition it is its job to point out the inadequacies of the government. Mind you they are really spoilt for choice!

No its not. You don't get free reign in that kind of coalition, this brings the end result closer to centre than it would have been in a labour majority.

So rather than posting about how JC is a Marxist etc why not say which Labour policies you dislike notanan2? or do you in fact not know what the policies are and are you just regugiitating the opinions of the right wing media?

I've already answered that Trisher.

Fennel
That's ok
If you are interested in the euro issue I would suggest reading any articles by lars Christensen

I have to say, Fennel, that not joining the euro was a very wise move on the part of the British. It means that we still have a sovereign currency and can run our economy in whatever way we please without having to conform to the 'rules' which euro using countries have to. Although we still suffer from the neo-liberal economic theories which have dictated a needless austerity policy we are not obliged to do this, unlike countries like Greece and Ireland which had to conform to this policy in order to be bailed out of their financial crises. We could run our economy along Keynesian lines, putting more money into it to save and create jobs, if we wanted to.

After the 2007/8 banking crisis, and after the 2016 referendum when the pound fell sharply, we were able to create £billions in Quantitative Easing to prevent the banks failing and to prop up the pound. No country in the euro would have been able to do that off its own bat.

I've just been catching up with this thread and am astounded to see that anyone could think that this government policy of privatising the NHS is anything other than detrimental!
Another area where it's worse South of the border.

What about education? Businesses and fat cats setting up free schools to suit themselves rather than in areas where school places are actually needed?
Wonder how Bevan would have felt while we were celebrating 70 years of the NHS but distorting his vision as we dismantle it and sell it off to profiteers!

Well, ladies, may I just say how impressed I am by the intelligent degree of debate on this thread at present! That said I’ve enjoyed a large glass of red wine this evening whilst watching an episode of ‘The Crown’ on Netflix and am quite certain I could not join in at this level. It’s been a very entertaining read however!
I think your proposal is brilliant Granny23 and I second it wholeheartedly. However it’s far too sensible to gain any traction.

Would someone please tell me which Labour plans in their manifesto are impractical?

Can anyone who voted for Brexit and seen the chaos that it has thrown this country in be proud of what they've done? And they're the ones that claim to be 'patriotic'. I'm in total despair of it all....

I tried that once before, Labaik. Was accused of trying to guilt trip them.

The problem with poor old Tinkerbell Brexit is that people just don't believe in it enough. If we all believed it would be as promised...

I'm getting a bit fed up with the assumption that there are only 2 Political Parties in this Country. Remember that TM is currently only in power courtesy of an agreement with the DUP and recently we had a Tory/Liberal Coalition.

If you have 'gone off' the Tories and can't stand Labour then please remember that other parties are available

Yes Granny23! I have pointed out on several occasions that the the 3rd biggest party in Westminster is SNP. The fact that they are currently quite high-profile in the HoC and actively pushing important and relevant points, might just act as a reminder of that.
Unfortunately I know that even if Scotland returned 100% SNP MP's we'd still be sidelined whenever possible. TM is disgracefully dismissive.
It makes me stop and ask myself if I should vote Labour in a GE if that would mean dislodging this heartless and incompetent government. That smacks of voting tactically which I 've never done but frankly I 'm questioning almost everything at the moment (but I do know I' d never support brexit)!

I was not just thinking about the SNP, but also the Greens, Liberals, Plaid ( though UKIP seems to be dead now). In the Scottish Parliament, because of the way it is structured, legislation requires the support of more than one Party in order to pass. This tempers extremism and forces the biggest party to consult/amend any motion in order to garner cross party support.

Well, well, the plot thickens (or sickens) anyone want to predict who will be PM next year?

Boris Johnson ?

I am so impressed by the speeches and dignity of the SNP MP's over the past few days [ditto Nicola Sturgeon over the past 2 = years]. They put most English MP's to shame. Especially now when the very group that forced the referendum are now fighting to become PM at a time when the country is disintegrating around them. They're like a pack of rabid wolves [which is being unfair to wolves...]..