Trump's wall

As my mother always told me two wrongs don''t make a right.
At least America has a system of controls which has thrown a spanner in the works. Altough I am sorry for those government workers who will be without pay this Christmas

Both are equally terrifying.

It seems that some Gransnetters, as well as Donald Trump, do not understand or, maybe, refuse to recognise the difference between illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. As many Central Americans are fleeing to the United States to escape dangerous conditions in their own countries, conditions at least partially created by United States' foreign policy and interference, it seems especially cruel to close the portals for applying for asylum.

The wall is simply a vanity project, like the aborted military parade in Washington, will cost billions and serve no purpose whatsoever.

Fennel - thanks I know about Project Witness and agree, it's the individual risks, sacrifices and commitment that make life so good.
I've close friends who came to the UK at the turn of the 19th century, escaping pogroms on Eastern Europe. The rest of their family remained in Krakow and were slaughtered in Auschwitz. Jewish people who survived the camps were sometimes killed by their neighbours when they returned to the Jewish area in Krakow after liberation. That's the thing isn't it, about baseless prejudice.

Fennel, I didn't set out to be snipey towards you and hope you don't read this comment in that way.

Not at all Iam. It's a very sensitive subject, but in my position as a convert I can be more detached.
As far as I can see pre-war anti semitism in Poland was between Catholics and Jews. Pre war Poland had the biggest Jewish community in Europe, and they were the poorest. Their loss was the greatest. Many of the concentration camps were in Poland.
Post war is something different. I think it was because of the takeover of communism in Poland.

Well said BuffyBee. I believe in border control, as do most people. It's something we must accept in the world in which we live.

However, Trump is a complete pillock. He is a deranged, self-absorbed narcissist in my opinion. Humane traits have never been given room in his pea sized brain. He could have his border controls without the nastiness and cruelty. I don't imagine that thought has ever entered his limited brain. That's an organ he never exercises.

How can you believe in border control?,
It's not a religion.

Explain how the world works without borders then oldbatty?

I'd be interested in your theory.

absent I absolutely agree with your point re people escaping conditions that have been principally or partially created by US foreign policy and interference.

Trump is really a very ignorant and unpleasant man and it is horrifying that some people continue to support someone so dangerous. Ramping up tensions between various countries and groups of people and being so confrontational in almost everything he says and does is just what we don't need in this very volatile world.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOgFZfRVaww

Living in Cloud Cuckoo land....

One of my most favourite songs ever.

I am not a fan of Donald Trump (is anyone?) yet despite that I can understand his desire to attempt to prevent his country being flooded with illegal immigration.

If as has been claimed, some of those from central America are genuine asylum seekers, then the US in common with other countries already has the correct procedure to follow.

Turning up in their hundreds of thousands at the Mexican border is not of course the way to go about it.

The fact that such a large sum of money has been raised by crowdfunding proves that a lot of Americans are behind what he is doing.

And before anyone shouts, they are not all raving ignorant racists. As has already been said, shouldn't EVERY country have the right to defend its borders?

Of course they should.

hundreds of thousands at the Mexican border

Not so. 4000. Not hundreds of thousands.

JenniferEccles, can you think again, reflect on what would have happened to the Kinder children if Britain and other countries had 'defended its borders'. News paper reports at the time indicate that many people didn't want to offer sanctuary, life in fact, to those Jewish children. The good old Daily Mail had many leaders saying exactly that.

It's a random act of fate where we are born. I feel blessed to have been born in England, to parents who loved me and provided me with a safe, secure childhood to the best of their abilities. The asylum seeking families I met through my work, like my parents, like myself, my family and friends, all wanted to provide a safe, secure childhood for their children. That's why they risked life and limb to get here.

Sadly, although the children were allowed in their parents were not and many of them perished. That "barricade" mentality leads to such tragedies.

Yes of course Eloethan, you're right to stress their parents weren't allowed in and perished in the camps. We should remember though, our governments promises to take in Syrian children, a promise that hasn't been kept. I wish we'd take in families but there are many orphaned children who could be helped.

Sorry if I missed someone saying this already, but didn't President Trump say during his campaign that ' The Mexicans would pay for the wall, not the American taxpayers'? So why is he demanding it now?

Because he can't get the Mexicans to pay.

He can't get anyone to pay!!

So, why do we worry about Trump's wall? When the Israelis built their wall, totally isolating the Palestinians, nobody raised their voice protesting at this injustice. What is the difference?

It's a different issue but what do the asylum seekers/migrants think is going to happen if they do make it to the USA? As a country it seems to have harsh medical and benefit systems. They're not going to qualify for housing or education. The poor areas I've seen are pretty much no go areas with drug abuse, dealing and lots of guns. America is a bad place if you don't have money.

Which I think should give food for thought about the conditions they are trying to escape from.

Or are they fed a diet of American TV leading them to believe its a land of milk and honey? I suspect that the fear is of so called 'economic migrants' rather than genuine asylum seekers.