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What next?

(514 Posts)
ayse Tue 15-Jan-19 20:46:40

Where is the vote in the Commons going to take us next. Whether remainder or leaver, this is a disgraceful shambles!

Davidhs Wed 16-Jan-19 07:14:08

We keep hearing about the UKs negotiating position, we do not have a negotiating position at all, the EU has already said no more talk. Every deal comes to a point where you get to a “take it or leave it” position, we have reached that point.
Clearly any “soft brexit” involving a customs union is within the terms of TMs deal, a Norway style deal by any other name but we are not Norway. We have a vastly different economy and EFTA regulation is not going to be easy.
Will the Tories and Labour agree on a soft brexit option, it’s hard to see how, it’s not in their nature to cooperate and in any case a soft brexit is not going to be popular with voters.

mcem Wed 16-Jan-19 07:36:48

The umpteenth reiteration of ill-informed nonsense lindilou.
Our laws and our borders, easy trade deals, great country - all thoroughly discredited.
Leave cloud cuckoo land and come to terms with what needs to be done to ensure that our young people enjoy the benefits that our generation had.

lemongrove Wed 16-Jan-19 08:09:32

I don’t blame any Remainers or the EU for this mess, it’s squarely at the feet of the MP’s in Westminster.Mostly, they are not prepared to accept the result of the referendum even though it was voted for at the time, and article 50 was also voted for, to trigger us leaving the EU.They are arrogant and self serving and shouldn’t be surprised if half of the elctorate never vote again.I expect T May will win the confidence vote, but think she should stand down now, after doing all she can, and let someone else in her Party take over.

Luckygirl Wed 16-Jan-19 08:30:43

As I have said many times, there are communities in the UK where a leave vote made a lot of sense. Not all people who voted to leave are immoral and racist.

Mrs May says that she is now going to "reach out" to other parties - a little late in the day, in my view. Negotiating something as important as this should always have been a cross-party process, especially as her party are so divided on the issue.

travelsafar Wed 16-Jan-19 08:33:59

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!" springs to mind !!!!

Urmstongran Wed 16-Jan-19 08:40:27

The government is split, the cabinet can’t agree, divisions 50/50 throughout parliament, many families voted differently, friends too and on forums.
The vote was to Leave the EU.
Mrs. May will ensure we come out on 29 March. She won’t step down and Corbyn won’t oust her.
Those who voted Leave are hopeful and those who voted Remain are fuming.

Coconut Wed 16-Jan-19 09:39:51

We have joined a growing list of countries now with embarrassing leaders ! Shambolic is an understatement.

GrannyIris5 Wed 16-Jan-19 09:42:11

Well said Lyndiloo. Quite agree

SunnySusie Wed 16-Jan-19 09:45:37

The 2016 referendum was advisory. 37% of the people eligible to vote chose Leave (nearly 13m didnt vote). There was very little information available about what any of the options actually meant. How many of us in real life make decisions with very few facts or information and then stick to them no matter what. If we do is it a good thing?

jenpax Wed 16-Jan-19 09:45:57

We need to revoke Article 50 and this is legally allowed I voted remain and am still a remainer. I do not agree that we need to forge a head regardless! The majority of the population are supporting a second vote (62%) and this is across all regions even the leave supporting hot beds. We must have a second referendum with (this time) all the facts on the table and I am praying that the remain camp will win this time around 🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺

Lewie Wed 16-Jan-19 09:49:43

Great post, Lyndiloo

CarlyD7 Wed 16-Jan-19 09:50:21

For those people who say we HAVE to Leave because of the vote in 2016 - I would say it's like a marriage where one of the spouses declares they want a divorce. A year or so on, they're still picking over the details, realising how much better off they were with their spouse and decide to call the divorce off and work on creating a better marriage (more than half of divorces started are called off). We are the 6th richest economy in the world - haven't done THAT badly being in the EU?

Granpe Wed 16-Jan-19 09:52:50

Not sure if I am allowed to do this - so Gransnet please delete if that is the case.........I have just set up a FB page Grannies Against Brexit. I feel I can't just sit and do nothing. If you are interested please Like and follow my page Grannies Against Brexit

Kernowflock Wed 16-Jan-19 09:54:08

I have grave concerns regarding the referendum. I agree, we should take the people's voice. But, the referendum was poorly administered which led to blatant lies and misinformation. I know two people who voted Brexit and would again. I know of over 50 who would not vote Brexit again. I know of no remainders who would now vote leave. So what went wrong.
The government should have laid out clearly two options, debated and agreed in the house. Information should then have been published which the House agreed, listing what was on offer. As it was the vote was on subjective information that was interpreted in many ways.
We are now in chaos with everyone saying their interpretation is correct! We need The House to agree what is on offer and then go back to the people. Brexiters can't complain as if indeed the people want to leave then the country will vote that way. Remainers can't complain if the second vote is to leave as the subjectivity and misinformation will not be valid arguments against accepting the vote. Then the country can get on with what we need to do.

We should also remember there was a small majority. Almost half the country disagreed. So there was never a 'clear mandate' and division was always guaranteed.
And all this because Cameron wanted to silence dissent in his party 😕

Howcome Wed 16-Jan-19 09:56:54

I don’t want to rehash all the old arguments - whatever side of the line you are in this is embarrassing and who knows where we go next We had to storm off heads held high or remain and join in with Europe neither are now possible. TM was a remainer so her Brexit was always going to be a bit soft. Where is Nigel and Boris now?? I’d have more respect if they took up the reigns and marched us out.
What a mess and not a leader in sight- I expected a battle for hearts and minds we could unite behind - whatever our view- instead we have the worst of all worlds. It will be OK though, whatever. It’s very embarrassing as a Nation, but we do have options either way and no one ever died of a bit of international embarrassment!!

Ginny42 Wed 16-Jan-19 09:58:20

The situation we now find ourselves in was entirely predictable as soon as the result of the referendum was declared. As I see it, the problem has arisen because the majority vote to leave WAS too close and that inevitably means that all those thousands of people who wished to remain in the EU feel disenfranchised.

Some of us envisaged the current impasse we now find ourselves in at that time. Not happy that I was correct.

GabriellaG54 Wed 16-Jan-19 09:59:59

Well said Lyndiloo 👏

ElaineRI55 Wed 16-Jan-19 10:01:00

The vast majority of folk voted with integrity and for what they believed would give the best future for the UK.
Unfortunately, a lot of lies and misinformation was peddled by Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage et al.
Immigration - we did have powers to restrict immigration for 7 years from new members and also to remove immigrants if they were not financially able to support themselves after 3 months. The UK gov chose not to use these powers!
Economy - we give a tiny fraction of our annual spend to EU and have absolutely had our money's worth.
Rules - again, a small % of our rules are made via EU. These have been made with UK as an equal partner at the table. many are about workers' rights,fairness, and environmental protection.. if we want any trade with EU in future, we will need to adhere to many of the rules, but without any say.
I was watching EU parliament this morning debating last night's UK vote defeating May's deal.
The overwhelming response is concern for the impact on UK ( and EU) citizens in the event of no-deal/bad deal. They are also open to UK staying in EU. There isn't and never has been any impression of a desire on the part of EU to be obstructive or impose penalties on UK.
Finally - to say we must leave as the people voted to leave and to change our minds would be undemocratic is just not the case. If a group of friends chose a holiday destination based on a glossy brochure and then found out the brochure didn't reflect the reality and the hotel was half-built, dirty and responsible for many cases of food-poisoning, who in their right mind would say " We voted for that hotel, it would be wrong and undemocratic to change our minds.We're going to have to go anyway, no matter the risks"?

mittenma Wed 16-Jan-19 10:01:07

At the time of the referendum, the only thing we thought we knew was what the public was told, some of which turned out to be a load of lies! I assume there will be some who have changed their minds since it has became a lot clearer as to what we would be letting ourselves in for in leaving Europe. (I voted remain and very glad I did!)

CarlyD7 Wed 16-Jan-19 10:01:42

No-one in the Tory party wants May's job just yet - it's a poisoned chalice. They will wait until we're out, then the next PM can blame anything that goes wrong on Mrs May. Scheming cowards, the lot of them.

spabbygirl Wed 16-Jan-19 10:02:04

the leave campaign broke the law in campaigning so the result should be invalid. Labour would make a far better job of negotiating a future cos with May (or should she be known as dismay?) loudly shouting about red lines it didn't leave much open to negotiating.

Lazigirl Wed 16-Jan-19 10:02:35

Leavers wanted our Government to "take back control". If this is what taking back control looks like it doesn't bode well for the future, particularly in a much diminished economy.

ElaineRI55 Wed 16-Jan-19 10:03:35

Sorry - last sentence meant to be "We're going to have to go anyway, no matter the risks"

matson Wed 16-Jan-19 10:04:36

We should respect peoples democratic right to vote how they decide, no need for recriminations here, perhaps just opinions on how the problem can be solved.

starbox Wed 16-Jan-19 10:06:23

Waiting with bated breath...HOPING for a no-deal Brexit, don't believe all the doom and gloom at all, just trying to scare the more credulous!