Can anybody explain Brexit please?

Let's not forget that the majority of the population are Remainers, and that has been shown to be the case in every poll over the last eighteen months. The average of the last six polls shows an 8% lead for Remain.

Everyone, or at least everyone who has been paying attention to the brexit scenario unfold, has become better informed. They now know that any kind of brexit will damage our country and that is why this brexit nonsense should be stopped.

Urmston thanks for the response please would you answer the most important part of my post as well? How would you balance that against all the things we will lose?

Anyone else noticed that the majority of name calling seems to be from the Leavers? Wish we could just all logically debate without being nasty.

Johno

I have posted how I find the use of words such as Brexshitters/Xenophobic/Uneducated/Racists/Insane belong to posters who cannot debate or put their case without trying to belittle so I have to say I find your use of words such as Slime/Contemptuous/Remoaners deserves to be called out for what it is too.

Posters can make some very good points but the continual use of derogatory words/terms which has done the rounds on Gransnet Forums for over 2 years now serves as no use to the poster trying to make/debate their view nor to the cause they are trying to get others to engage in.

Using words such as the following serves what purpose if you want others to engage in adult debate ?

Brexshitters/Slime/Xenopbes/Racists/Remoaners/Thick/UnUneducated/ Basket of Deploirables/Contemptuous / Insane et al

Varian

" Let's not forget that the majority of the population are Remainers "

That is not a statement that you can back up with ' fact'.

Nonnie

" Anyone else noticed that the majority of name calling seems to be from the Leavers?"

No I have not and I showed why by posting what words have been used , to name a few.

varian,

Now that parliament is in charge of Brexit we need to look at the number of constituencies in favour of Remain.

The Referendum result was:

406 constituencies for Leave
versus
242 constituencies for Remain.

Can you please guide me to a source that shows for our MPs' constituencies this has flipped?

Thanks.

Labaik
How do you feel about the fact that Phillip hammond has had to ditch his promise to tax online sales as it's against eu ruling on 'fair' competition.
I can only assume that your happy with the likes of Amazon etc being able to evade their humongous profits through their base in Luxembourg set up by Jean Claude Juncker.

How about this Nonnie as one of the things we would lose:

‘Child benefit for migrant workers
EU citizens working in the UK can claim child benefit even if their children are not living in this country. That right is likely to be an early casualty of Brexit.’

Urmstongran

Why should EU workers in the UK be able to claim child benefits for children who in all likelihood have never and will never set foot in the UK?

If they have their family here and children born in UK, and one or both parents are working only then should Child Benefits be paid.

I’m sure you know Nonnie that Parliament will decide which E.U. rules to keep and which to ditch, post Brexit.
We have to trust the HoC not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

But here’s a good example of one which I think we will decide not to comply with any more:
that British ports are currently fighting against the proposed “Port Services Regulation”. This is an EU proposal designed for the majority of European ports, which are state-owned. It ignores the fact that British ports are private, competing enterprises. It contains a proposed rule about charges not being “disproportionate”, which may not be a problem for state industries receiving subsidies, as Hamburg does. But a private company has to raise tens of millions of pounds to finance expansion.

Not sure why people are constantly quoting this poll and that poll. I believe that the polls taken before the referendum were pointing to a remain result????

Polls have a habit of being wrong.

Sorry GG13 it was meant tongue in cheek! I should have made that clearer. Perhaps put in a grinning face emoji!
I totally agree with you - it’s one of the ‘things we will lose’ that many of us will be glad about!

No problem ?

Thanks Urmstongran and petra for giving the sort of replies that we need to understand why Brexit has happened. It won't change my belief that staying in the EU is better than leaving, but, as a country, we desperately need to understand how all this chaos came about. I still feel that most of us should have taken more of an interest in the EU and it's workings, and feel that the EU is democratic enough to change it's policy on things. My only knowledge of the EU prior to all this is that we had Farage as an MEP whose sole aim was to leave the EU and he did that by not representing properly the people he was there to represent [the fishermen] because he wanted people to think badly of the EU. I will look into those points, though. Regarding surveys etc what is undeniable is that 2 countries out of 4 [3 if we include Gibraltar] have had their vote totally ignored and I don't see how that is democracy in action.

Brexshitters/Slime/Xenopbes/Racists/Remoaners/Thick/UnUneducated/ Basket of Deploirables/Contemptuous / Insane et al

Do you keep a spreadsheet of these, POGS? Perhaps you should modify it to keep a record of who said it and how many times every word you find offensive has been used. Ooh, and how many times a poster has posted so we know what percentage of their posts contain the offending words...

Then perhaps we could make objective judgements.

GG: 'Why should EU workers in the UK be able to claim child benefits for children who in all likelihood have never and will never set foot in the UK?

If they have their family here and children born in UK, and one or both parents are working only then should Child Benefits be paid.'

I would tend to agree with you. But you do realise this is reciprocal, eg that there are 1000s of British citizens in the EU, who are entitled to child benefits, and also unemployment benefits if they become unemployed. I know many in Switzerland who have lost their job and have 2 years of their salary at 80% + free retraining course, language courses, etc, and continued child benefit in the meantime, for instance.

It goes both ways, and there are many more Brits in the EU and EEA, than t'other way round.

MazieD it seems someone has touched a nerve? You seem very cross.

The whole of the U.K. voted & with hindsight (a wonderful thing) I don’t think how the separate countries voted should have been given out. It seems to have just caused more bitter division. ‘We voted out’. Etc.
Well yes NI and Scotland you did.
As did London.
But overall NI (pop. 1.8 million) and Scotland (pop. just over 5 million) - I don’t know the size of Gibraltar - how should that matter in the grand scheme of things?
We are the U.K.

Jura has answered for me Umston. Didn't you realise it was reciprocal? Some Brits get a lot more in unemployment benefits in the EU than they would in the UK.

As for British ports are currently fighting against the proposed “Port Services Regulation”. This is an EU proposal well it hasn't happened has it? It is still under discussion so not really a good example.

All this attacking of the EU is understandable but should not be taken in isolation. No system is perfect, there will always be things we don't like. The EU has given British workers some excellent protection but that seems to be forgotten.

We should all be looking at both sides, the pros and cons and deciding, in balance, what is best for the country, not ourselves individually. On one of the threads someone said they were not concerned for future generations. That is so selfish.

Labaik ??
Your comment was really nice. Thank you.

I agree Nonnie. It is good to find common ground where we can instead of tearing ourselves (the U.K.) apart over this. But I supppose that’s the nature of this beast. You had to make a binary choice.

My husband and I voted Leave. But we no longer work and have pensions. With that in mind we honestly did consider future generations when we made our choice.

All this is exhausting isn’t it?

Yes Urmston it is and I wish I could forget it but it is very important. I think a lot of people have Brexit fatigue. I do still think that we should all be open minded to the views of others but it is quite hard when some misquote and accuse others or opinions and beliefs they have not expressed. That makes it hard to have rational debate.

I am so fed up with it all and most of all the backstop talk. What is it??!! ( I don't really want an answer.) Stay or leave life will go on. Don't care. I did care at one point.

from the New York Times .

.The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class ( you can google the whole article but here is a flavour of it.....

"Britain’s rupture with the European Union is proving to be another act of moral dereliction by the country’s rulers. The Brexiteers, pursuing a fantasy of imperial-era strength have repeatedly revealed their ineptitude over the past two years. Though originally a “Remainer,” Theresa May has matched their stubborn arrogance imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit and laying down red lines that undermined negotiations with Brussels and doomed her deal to resounding rejection in Parliament. Such a pattern of egotistic and destructive behaviour by the British elite flabbergasts many people today.
The blame for this political fiasco is laid at the door of those educated in the elitist public school system. These eternal schoolboys whose “weight is out of all proportion” to their numbers are certainly overrepresented among Tories. They have today plunged Britain into its worst crisis, exposing its self-serving ruling class like never before.
From David Cameron, who recklessly gambled his country’s future on a referendum in order to isolate some whingers in his Conservative Party, to the opportunistic Boris Johnson, who jumped on the Brexit bandwagon to secure the prime ministerial chair, and the top-hatted, theatrically retro Jacob Rees-Mogg, whose fund management company has set up an office within the European Union even as he scorns it, the British political class has offered to the world an astounding spectacle of lying, intellectually limited hustlers.
Even a columnist for The Economist, an organ of the British elite, now professes dismay over “Oxford chums” who coast through life on “bluff rather than expertise.” “Britain,” the magazine belatedly lamented last month, “is governed by a self-involved clique that rewards group membership above competence and self-confidence above expertise.” In Brexit, the British “chumocracy,” the column declared, “has finally met its Waterloo.”"

Bit biased and over the top paddy but I think many on here would agree with a lot of it whichever way they voted.

Not sure about Theresa May has matched their stubborn arrogance imposing a patently unworkable timetable of two years on Brexit Did she have a choice of the timetable or was it written in ARticle 50?

I've never seen JRM in a top hat!