Gransnet forums

Fraudulent referendum

(85 Posts)
varian Fri 01-Feb-19 15:22:22

Last December, it was reported that- the “corrupt and illegal practices” of the Vote Leave campaign in the 2016 referendum undermine the validity of the decision to leave the EU, the high court has been told.

Relying on findings made by the Electoral Commission about overspending by the pro-Brexit campaign, British people living in Europe have launched a legal case arguing the referendum result should in effect be set aside.

“Breaches of spending rules are serious offences that vitiate the referendum result,” Jessica Simor QC, for the claimants, told the court. “Corruption and illegality in the course of an election or referendum must have a consequence. Corruption and illegal practices undermine the rule of law and democracy.”

There was significant overspending, data breaches and possibly Russian involvement in the referendum, she said. “The electorate can no longer be expected to respect the result.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/corrupt-vote-leave-campaign-undermines-brexit-vote-court-told

Today we learn that the information commissioner has launched an audit into Leave.EU and the insurance company owned by the campaign’s key financial backer, Arron Banks, after fining the organisations a total of £120,000 for data protection violations during the EU referendum campaign

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/01/leave-eu-arron-banks-insurance-company-fined-data-breaches-information-commissioner-audit

Why has this taken so long to investigate ? That fraudulent referendum should be declared invalid and Article 50 should immediately be revoked.

EllanVannin Fri 01-Feb-19 15:35:54

I've always thought that the " Leaving " vote had shades of jiggery-pokery.

NotSpaghetti Fri 01-Feb-19 15:43:18

Why has this taken so long to investigate?
Because no one dare touch it.
😟

humptydumpty Fri 01-Feb-19 15:46:18

Sending out a horrific message: as long as you get the result you want, you can do what you want, because the result will still be valid.

Nonnie Fri 01-Feb-19 16:14:51

On the tenth anniversary there will be a book and documentaries showing all the evidence of the corruption and lies. By then it will all be too late as there is currently no political will to push this.

I agree humpty rotten world we now live in.

varian Fri 01-Feb-19 16:55:29

The campaign group called "Led By Donkeys", "because if you live in Britain you feel we are a nation of lions led by donkeys", has been putting up posters showing quotations of statements by prominent leave campaigners before the referendum.

"This particular idea - to skewer the hypocrisy of Brexiteers on huge public billboards - has turned into a national campaign that is getting up the nose of some of the country’s most influential politicians.

One campaigner says "This is a political crisis. We are providing the public with a service, reminding them that the people asking for our trust now have a dreadful record of predicting what would happen. We are trying to provoke a conversation. It’s unclear if they were liars or fantasists, but they were definitely wrong."

www.smh.com.au/world/europe/it-began-at-the-pub-the-campaign-to-shame-brexit-s-biggest-donkeys-20190201-p50uzq.html

Looking at the comments, it seems that the readers of the Sydney Morning Herald are shocked that so many voters in the UK were conned, and that the UK government is determined to inflict terrible damage on the country because of this fraudulent referendum.

jura2 Fri 01-Feb-19 18:00:35

In the meantime, the UK, the US and the West in general are criticising Venezuela's election sad

varian Fri 01-Feb-19 18:16:40

£120,000 fine for Leave.EU for serious breaches of electronic marketing laws- a bit like fining Lance Armstrong for taking drugs but letting him keep the Tour de France titles he won while on those drugs.

varian Sat 02-Feb-19 12:25:26

Leave.EU campaign and Arron Banks firm Eldon Insurance fined for illegal marketing. The data law watchdog has issued fines totalling £120,000 to two organisations involved in the Brexit campaign.

news.sky.com/story/leave-campaign-and-arron-banks-firm-elson-insurance-fined-for-illegal-marketing-11624617

On the day this shocking story was reported by Sky News and Channel 4, the BBC did NOT even mention it. Surely it is time that the outrageous bias of the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation was investigated???? They are after all funded by us, and most of us want to Remain in the EU and are utterly sickened at the antics of our once-respected public service broadcaster.

RosieLeah Sat 02-Feb-19 13:46:02

This is an insult to those who voted 'Leave'. Do you think we are unable to think for ourselves? Do you think we have been unaware of how this country has been affected by joining the EU, with its petty little rules and leniency towards criminals? I, and many others, didn't vote to join and jumped at the opportunity to vote to leave. I didn't need persuading, just the chance to voice my opinion.

Beau Sat 02-Feb-19 13:59:18

Well said Rosie 👏🏻 👍🏻

Alexa Sat 02-Feb-19 14:03:49

RosieLeah, the chance to voice your opinion belongs with chatting in the pub or coffee shop. Voting in a life changing referendum belongs with facts and how they impact upon everybody else.

MaizieD Sat 02-Feb-19 14:15:11

Well said, Alexa

What 'petty little rules' don't you like, Rosie?

jura2 Sat 02-Feb-19 15:13:38

RosieLeah could you kindly give us a list of those petty EU rules which influenced your vote. Thanks.

Nonnie Sat 02-Feb-19 16:32:43

I would like those details too please Rosie I'm ready to listen and change my mind.

Day6 Sat 02-Feb-19 16:42:17

Voting in a life changing referendum belongs with facts and how they impact upon everybody else

How it hurt Remainers to lose you mean? The angst the middle class elite felt because, well, how dare those common little oiks think differently from us, who know better? That sort of impact?

Give it a rest, please.

No one knows what the world will be like this time next week, next year, the day after we leave the EU. No one can predict anything for sure.

I was informed enough to know Leave could be the only way I voted. How dare anyone suggest my vote or my reasons for voting Leave weren't valid.

jura2 Sat 02-Feb-19 16:50:57

RosieLeah was totally entitled to write:

' how this country has been affected by joining the EU, with its petty little rules'

and no-one is saying it is not valid. It is totally fair to ask what rules she had in mind. So we will wait patiently and politely, in hope.

varian Sat 02-Feb-19 18:36:35

Brexit lies: The demonstrably false claims of the EU referendum campaign-

‘Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market’ – Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan

‘Once we have settled our accounts, we will take back control of roughly £350m per week’ – Boris Johnson

‘We will need an emergency Budget to restore stability to public finances’ – George Osborne

‘The UK loses out because other members favour a highly regulated and protectionist economy’ – Jacob Rees-Mogg

‘Turkey (population 76 million) is joining the EU’ – Vote Leave publicity

Of course the Gransnet leavers have told us that they were not influenced by any of these lies, but surely we can agree that some leave voters might have been?

varian Sat 02-Feb-19 18:41:30

No, before you point it out, I will say that I do know that George Osborne was not a leaver. He was David Cameron's sidekick and second in command, who at some point in the campaign, decided that he had to try to counter the leaver's lies with scare tactics. That misfired, didn't it because of the Tory's credibility deficit.

MaizieD Sat 02-Feb-19 19:13:58

Nobody is suggesting that your vote wasn't valid, Day6. What is being suggested is the the referendum result is not valid because some of the Leave campaign groups cheated and broke the electoral law.

Had it been an election the result would have been declared invalid. As it was only advisory there is no recourse to the law.

jura2 Sat 02-Feb-19 19:56:52

RosieLeah - perhaps you are out- but I do hope you will come back and tell us about those 'petty little rules'.

It's very hard to have any sensible debate otherwise.

MaizieD Sat 02-Feb-19 23:10:08

But, Day6, I do wish you would tell us the sources of your assertions about the EU.

I'm still waiting to find out where you got the figure of £19 billion from as the UK's contribution to the EU in 2014.

I wonder if it was from a 'source' like this MP who not only seems to relish the idea of refighting WWII but also has his history completely wrong:

Daniel Kawczynski @DKShrewsbury

Britain helped to liberate half of Europe. She mortgaged herself up to eye balls in process. No Marshall Plan for us only for Germany. We gave up war reparations in 1990. We put £370 billion into EU since we joined. Watch the way ungrateful EU treats us now. We will remember.

Just read the thread where everyone puts him right. Britain got the biggest allocation of Marshall Aid in Europe.

twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/status/1091728290337959936

I wonder how many of the Leavers on here actually approve of this guy and agree with what he's saying?

Farmor15 Sun 03-Feb-19 06:21:34

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/post-brexit-britain-may-not-want-to-pay-for-northern-ireland-1.3723855
The UK exchequer provides a £10.8 billion (€12.1 billion) annual subsidy to Northern Ireland and pays £8.6 billion net each year to the European Union.
I hesitate to get involved in this debate as I’m not British, but wonder if many know that supporting Northern Ireland costs more than membership of EU?

RosieLeah Sun 03-Feb-19 07:50:40

Surely the topic under discussion is whether those who voted to leave were influenced by the Leave campaign? If you wish to discuss the merits of the EU, you should do so under a new heading. As for the matter of Northern Ireland...if it is so important to them to have an open border with Eire, perhaps they need to ask themselves where their first loyalties lie? Having lived in Ireland, I know that one of the main concerns is the influence of the Catholic church. Now that the Pope has less control over the Irish government, perhaps those of the North might re-consider a re-united Ireland?

crystaltipps Sun 03-Feb-19 08:18:13

Religion much less important in ROI than NI. The influence of the church has declined so much in ROI. The recent referendums on gay marriage and abortion show that. NI far more intolerant.