Breakaway Labour MP’s

Who is "hero worshipping" him on Gransnet?

What baffles me and has done since Corbyn came into prominence is the almost cult status and hero worship of him by seemingly normal people?

I don’t see it. He’s a very mediocre quite think skinned often irritable generally ineffectual middle aged man.

He has never held any position of authority or value either in Westminster or in his pre Westminster days. He has no charisma, no wit, no charm, nothing. He’s like a boring old hippy that forgot to mature.

I get the kids liked him as he lied about tuition fees, they know better now!

But middle aged women? And men?

Baffling.

At the risk of being shot down (which I'm sure I will be) why can't people stand up to so-called harassment and bullying?
Especially if they go into politics, it's par for the course.
As on here sometimes.

PECS

' If anyone uses someone's Jewishness as a slur,to abuse or hurt them I will be standing side by side with that hurt person.'
----

Then why don't you stand side by side with MP's who are and have been experiencing their Jewishness as a slur,to abuse or hurt them?

It is not only the MP' s of Jewish faith that have been targeted for 3 years since Jeremy for Leader /Momentum took over Labour. It is Not all about anti-semitism the charges of harassment, bullying are just as important.

There is no hierarchy to racism Annie If you are using a person's colour or creed to abuse, especially from a position of advantage them it is racism. There was a recent appalling case of a lawyer and his young son who came home to find "no blacks here" daubed on their door. Shocking in the UK today that this should be thought something OK to do.

You dislike Jeremy Corbyn because of his policies. That is what we are all entitled to do oppose policies. As a country we are railing against Iran, Iraq, Venezuela etc because of the government policies.. not the individual people.
I find the policies of the Israeli government inappropriate and damaging to another minority group. It is becoming more and more difficult to express my legitimate hurt and anger without being accused of anti-Semitism. Yet when I have been on pro-Palestinian rallies I have stood side by side with Jewish, Muslim, Christian and Humanist friends because we are opposing a political regime and ideal not the individual people who are Jews.

If anyone uses someone's Jewishness as a slur,to abuse or hurt them I will be standing side by side with that hurt person. If someone is Jewish and supports Zionism I feel I should be able to debate that with them without being called racist.

There's a thread somewhere about the definition of antisemitism, according to some international group.
This is such a huge subject, maybe we should have a thread about what is racism?
Having personal involvement, I don't think I'm the best person to give you a concise answer.

Perhaps you'd like to give your definition of anti-semitism then anniebach?

It isn’t different fennel , I wondered what you meant by
‘genuine racism.

I am surprised you ask what is anti semitism

Of course it is, Annie.
But what IS anti-semitism? And how is it different from anti black, anti muslim, anti pakistani, anti polish, anti scots, anti irish, anti welsh, anti english etc.?

Fennel you don’t consider anti semitism as racist ?

Eloethan good post.
The word 'racist' has been bandied about so much it has lost its meaning.
And diminished the impact of cases of genuine racism.

Not appear to be much in Corbyn’s life to critcise ?

Dragging in racist comments by Tory party members is really saying, ‘ they are more racist than we are so the racism in our party doesn’t matter

It is the fact Corbyn /Momentum supporters have dismissed and denied the problem within the Jeremy for Leader/Corbyn/ Momentum Labour Party over accusations of an unprecedented scale concerning antisemitism, bullying and harassment no matter who /when and how the allegations have come forward as evidence.

The recent ' Resignations ' of Labour MP's is down to this continual dismissal and denial belief it is an anti Corbyn/far left ruse by the right wing media etc.

All I can say is keep the denial coming because eventually the penny will drop with the wider Labour voting 'public' that Labour has a problem and if they see loyal Labour MP's whom they have elected to represent them for years feel they can no longer feel safe nor comfortable within Labour they will hopefully get to grips with the fact Labour did change after the Jeremy for Leader/Corbyn/Momentum Party took over the Labour Party.

It used to be said the Jeremy for Leader/ Momentum Party was a ' Party within a Party '. Well it has finally become ' The Party ' because it now holds all the nuts, bolts , locks and keys.

Fish rot from the head down.

From the outset, it became quite clear that those who control the newspapers - who, probably through self-interest, were in favour of the Conservative austerity programme - wanted Corbyn out and would do anything to discredit him. On top of that, Corbyn is persona no grata to those in power in Israel and people who were fully supportive of Israeli policies towards the Palestinians.

Corbyn was a threat to the status quo in regard to this country's economic and social policies and in regard to this country's stance regarding Israel. There does not appear to be much in his life that can be used to "dish the dirt" so something needed to be found to discredit him and anyone who supported him.

Racism can be quite a difficult allegation to support or refute so it has been quite a useful one to throw at Corbyn and people who are broadly in favour of many of his views. But if there is clear evidence that a group of people or an individual has been racially abused or subject to threatening behaviour my understanding is that that would be a criminal offence and individuals who are alleged to have committed these offences should be dealt with through the legal system.

There are dozens of examples of Conservative and UKIP officials and members making racist remarks - eg the Conservative councillor who captioned the photograph of a woman in a burka standing next to some black bin bags "'I saw her standing there and I told her she had three beautiful children." Or Boris Johnson referring to black children as "piccaninnies". There are too many of these sorts of examples to count.

I think black and Asian people who have since the 50's been the target of racist comments and who have been discriminated against in all areas of public life - education, employment, housing, the justice system, etc, etc must be perplexed as to why their hopes and ambitions continue to be adversely affected by unconscious or deliberate racism and yet their issues are rarely addressed. Instead, simply expressing a view about another country's behaviour means that a person will be labelled as "racist".

Or whose parties no longer represent what they stood for

Funny how some who speak out strongly against women being bullied and abused have not defended those in the 11 who have been bullied and abused

Labour MP Ian Austin MP for Dudley North in the West Midlands has left the Labour Party .

He will not be joining the Independent ' group ' of 11 but he will presumably either sit as another Independent MP or there will be a By-Election.

He left because of Antisemitism and the Leadership .

There are now 19 MP's from LABOUR, CONSERVATIVES, and LIB DEMS who no linger represent their parties and sitting as Independent MP's.

12 now. One more has just left the LP

Isn't it funny how regardless of the subject some posters post entirely the same things they always do. They seem unable to discuss anything else. So the actions of 11 MPs become submerged in castigating Corbyn and accusations of anti-semitism. I don't think the 11 would be happy. I think they wanted people to talk about them.

Ruth Smeeth was verbally attacked by a Momentum activist
When Chakrabati delivered her findings on anti semetism in the party, Ruth left the room distressed. Corbyn remained silent and after the meeting he greeted her attacker , it’s on uTube.

At the Party conference last year Ruth need police protection,

Luciana Berger and others said that the LP had failed to tackle anti-Semitism in the Labour ranks. Yet I read in the Evening Standard that Mr Corbyn said he was "utterly determined to root out anti-Semitism from our party and our country".

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-vows-to-fight-antisemitism-telling-jewish-people-labour-is-their-ally-a4072466.html

I thought Sharma Chakrabati found there was no anti-Semitism in the LP so why is he determined to root out something they deny exists?

Someone forgot to write it down for him to read

Day6

Because that would take energy and time and we all know he’s hopelessly lazy.

I think they left for more than one reason. Corbyn's support for Tory brexit is a big one when most LP voters, most LP members and most LP MPs want the UK to Remain in the EU.

Corbyn is anti EU and always has been. AFAIAC it is his one strength and I just wish he'd stop fence sitting and use his position to outline why leaving the EU is a left wing cause!

He is a fool unto himself!

He would have tapped into the Unions very worthy objections to the EU and would have had the large Labour Leave contingent standing by his side.

He lost the courage of his convictions and for that he is a weaker man and leader.

POGS the petition is worded MPs to call by-elections if they leave their party
The explanation mentions the 11 MPs but the petition itself does not.
Listening to Anna Soubry attempting to explain what all of them had in common- "shared values" apparently, but that they did not have policies because they are not a political party was a bit like listening to the discussion between Alice and the White Queen
Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.