Shemima Begum

She cannot go and live with her father for the same reason she cannot return to the UK, she is now stateless. Sajid Javid's argument that she can apply for a Bangledeshi passport is on very dodgy ground and the Bangladeshis have made it very clear that there is now way they are going to give her a passport.

The problem with the Quran (and the bible) is that they are both open to interpretation and manipulation in the hands of extremists.

MOnica: quite! Ghetousing "problem" groups has ALWAYS backfired

I don't understand all the talk of 'Christian' values - we have a Home Secretary who made this decision who is Muslim.

I felt this error needed to be corrected. It is germane to the discussion.

Point taken M0nica - and perhaps posters will stop criticising others for their Christian values when they may not be religious either, like the Home Secretary.

SB's Bangladeshi isn't she
Well, I am
I thought that Shamima Begum was English

Yes, I think her father did go to live in Bangladesh with a new wife, coming home occasionally to visit his first family, so perhaps the girl was seeking love and security.

Shamima Begum was born in Britain and lived in Britain until she joined ISIS.

Her entitlement in relation to Bangladeshi citizenship is like mine in relation to Irish citizenship. I can apply for it because my grandfather was born in Ireland, in her case her parents were born in Bangladesh, but the Irish can then choose to turn my application down and in SB's case, that is what the Bangladeshi government has done.

Exactly. I still can't believe some of the stuff on this thread.

Totally apart from he in/humanity of this situation- do you really think it makes the UK safer to have her here, under strict supervision- or there, grieving and totally bereft and probably even more rife for further manipulation, this time based on anger, rejection and grief?

I understand what your saying jura but at what cost? It's estimated that their are more than 100 IS women in the refugee camps, most hoping to be repatriated to the UK with their children. Security forces going out to Syria and Iraq to bring them back safely; housing them once they are back; going through the judicial system; probable imprisonment; social worker involvement for their whole family 24/7/365; monitoring of them by security forces and de radicalisation programmes which, hitherto, haven't been successful on others. It's a huge problem that almost every country in the world is grappling with, not just the UK.

Agreed, huge cost. The alternative could cost us an awful lot more.

I have no idea what the solution to SB and other Daesh supporters and fighters who want to return to the UK.

I guess if they are UK born, they are our responsibility. Keeping the other 60+ million UK residents safe is also our collective responsibility.

I would feel uncomfortable with a Guantanamo Bay type solution on our shores. Honestly I have no idea.

Do you feel that only the women should be repatriated to their home countries jura, or do you think that male ISIS supporters should also be taken back?

Switzerland isn't in any hurry to have Abu Wael al-Swisary repatriated back home to serve time in a Swiss prison, are they? He's been languishing in a Syrian prison for a couple of years now and has begged to be allowed back to serve his time at home but, like so many other western countries, Switzerland is having none of it and is leaving him where he is.

And today it has been announced two other women, with 5 children between them, have also been deprived of citizenship. By Amber Rudd, before she was removed.
Five more British kids abandoned in a prison camp

Jalima1108
She may be British but not English. There IS a difference.

I read that MP, Jeremy Hunt is discussing ways of bringing the children of so called British 'jihadi brides' to the UK.

I'm totally against this and have emailed his offices with my reasons, not least of which is the total cost of their upbringing which would be taxpayer funded...
Who on earth would want to foster them?

I think the situation with the men is more problematic because they will have undoubtedly been involved in fighting and probably rape and other violence.

I know some of the women have been active online recruiters, but I think the majority have, as they say, been confined to their homes and domestic duties. That is where ISIS think women should stay.

But at the end of the day it is not so much a choice of what we want to happen, but what is in our best interests. I think it is our best interest to let them return home where we can monitor and manage them rather than leave 1,000s, may be 10,000 stateless people living in deteriorating conditions in Syria where they can foment and increase their own extremism and eventually find some organisation willing to fund them to start causing more problems, first in the middle east and then in our country and others.

The time has past when the events in other parts of the world did not affect us. What happens to those stateless in the desert, directly affects our security here. I would rather that those who most directly threaten our security were in the hands of our own security forces. not wandering clandestinely around the world.

Monica you have made a very valid point.

It's a good argument to put forward M0nica and I understand your reasoning behind it but, none of those who are ISIS supporters and are in the camps are able "wander clandestinely" anywhere, are they? And if we do accept any of them back to the countries of origin, what is the deterrent to any other would be ISIS supporters? Aren't we sending the message that, no matter what you've done, no matter what you've been involved with, you can always come home?

They cannot wander clandestinely now, but a year or two on, the Syrians may decide that they have better things to do than maintain these camps and feed these people. Then what?

What we should say is: you may come home and you will face criminal proceedings and probably a long term in prison. I would think it would be possible to send at least some of them to the International Court at The Hague on genocide and other war crimes, which could result in life sentences and it should be possible to prosecute them in this country for crimes with long prison terms attached. ISIS did rather enjoy filming all its nastier actions and publicising them. It is difficult to deny something you have been filmed doing or have boasted or described online.

If we don't bring them back but leave them in the camps they will of course have access to a new generation of young people who will have even more reason to feel that the west has destroyed their lives. Young people who will be ripe for recruitment and radicalisation. If they are then able to move to other countries they will carry that with them. If they remain in the camps the camps could become centres for a new conflict. All it needs is someone to smuggle some arms into them. Of course it would cost money to bring them home and deal with them, but the cost of not bringing them home could be much higher.

Monica

" I know some of the women have been active online recruiters, but I think the majority have, as they say, been confined to their homes and domestic duties. That is where ISIS think women should stay."
---

Since '. 2014 ' we have been told of the female ISIS women who most certainly are not stay at home mothers.

There is a female ISIS brigade called the ' AL KHANSAA BRIGADE ' and over the years it has been spoken of until now.

The Yazidi Women and others who were enslaved by ISIS and their wives say the European Women were the worst, most brutal.
-----
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/escaped-isis-wives-describe-life-in-the-all-female-al-khansa-brigade-who-punish-women-with-40-lashes-10190317.html. 2015

" As many as 60 British women are said to have joined the group by last September, with Aqsa Mahmood, the 20-year-old Glaswegian who left her family to join Isis last year, understood to be a prominent figure within the force."
----

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4865326/Female-ISIS-torturer-describes-horrors-inflicted.html

" A female ISIS deserter has spoken of how she would revel in torturing other women in front of their family members during her time in an all-girl jihadist brigade in Raqqa, Syria.

The woman, only known as Hajer, also reveals that the British female jihadists would be the most sadistic torturers, and would use a tool known as a 'biter', reportedly able to inflict pain 'worse than childbirth'.

The 25-year-old was one of the first recruits to join the all-female Al-Khansaa brigade in 2014, a group of women jihadists that has been compared to Hitler's Gestapo."
---

These women would whip women and children because they didn't maybe wear black socks. They were not ISIS fighters wives but the women and children of towns like Raqqa that ISIS took over and whom ISIS had no compunction but to enslave and brutalise at whim.

The women in the AK KHANSAA BRIGADE became known as ' biters ' because of the metal contraption that they used to rip at the skin of women and children , some of whom blead to death.

We have no idea what ANY man , woman nor child has been doing in the name of the Caliphate and that is the problem.

For all we know they are trying to obtain / or have gathered evidence regarding not only the British prisoners but obviously those from other countries too.

I am not accusing Begum of being an abuser of other women and children but I will accuse Begum of knowing and being complicit with what others were doing in the name of the Caliphate and that is something she has already implied in her interviews .

I am still not convinced that these violent women were the majority and it still does not defeat my argument that for our own safety and security it is better that these British ISIS members are in the custody of, or under the surveillance of the British security service than mustering, re-arming and starting again in the Syrian desert.

a year or two on, the Syrians may decide that they have better things to do than maintain these camps and feed these people. Then what?
I think these particular camps are run by Kurds and I think that they need more international help than they are receiving at present.

What are other countries doing about this?
This was reported three years ago:
According to a report to the UN Security Council, nearly 30 thousand foreign fighters were recruited currently in the ISIS ranks. They came from 100 countries around the world including countries that had been untouched by the activity of terrorist groups such as Chile and Finland.

if she was born in England Gabriella then she is indeed ENGLISH

Chewbacca- she is British, not Swiss.

She is also a young woman who was groomed when she was a child.

SB is actually dual----being born of a Bangladeshi parent/s making her a Bangladeshi citizen. When she turns 21 she can choose her citizenship either British or Bangladeshi.

Her present statelessness is not illegal against those who enforced it because of her blood-line as until she turns 21 her status, although " dormant " when resident in the UK, is Bangladeshi.

Who would not want to foster or adopt innocent little children?