Shemima Begum

jura I'm well aware that SB is British! Are you being obtuse or have you missed the point of my post? I was pointing out that, whilst you strongly advocate the UK repatriating her, and other Daesh supporters, to their countries of origin, the Swiss are in no apparent hurry to repatriate their citizens either. I wonder whether that exercises your condemnation as much as the UK's, and other western countries too? Or is it just Britain?

As for her being groomed.... I'm not sure about that, so I'll leave that with you.

POGS What a truly horrific situation.

My heart bleeds for those made to suffer under these “torturers”

She may be British but not English. There IS a difference.
Being English does mean that a person is British too GabriellaG54.
When I defined her as English I meant that she was born in England, therefore English and British, rather than born in Wales therefore Welsh and British etc.

I agree that your passport states that you are a British citizen (and also gives location of birth) - and I do know that she may not have a passport because she used her older sister's passport, although that could have been because she thought she could have been stopped at security because she was only 15.

Chewbacca I did ask in an earlier post what other countries are doing about their citizens who left to join ISIS.
Sun 10-Mar-19 22:55:04

Perhaps posters who live in other countries may know the answers?

Chewbacca I think there is a difference between someone being held in a Syrian prison asking their country to repatriate them and someone held in a refugee camp doing the same. Although in my opinion all western countries should take the responsibility of dealing with their own offenders. Alternatively I suppose they could set up some sort of a judicial system in Syria which would try the offenders, much as was done in Germany at the end of the war. The problem then being that it would be necessary to establish some sort of prison where the guilty could be held.

There would also be the difficulty of deciding just who had committed war crimes trisher - would Assad also be arrested and put on trial for crimes against his people? He is still shelling areas in Syria - and has been aided by Russia. The situation in Syria is so much more complicated than that in post-war Germany, although some of the top Nazis did manage to escape after the war.

The international community would have to come together with a will and that is probably not going to happen.

There is no problem with citizens serving prison sentances in the countries where they comit the crimes (so long as there was a fair trial and a non coerced confession, humaine proson conditions etc). It is oftem right that justice is served where the crime is commited. The prisoners remain citizens of their country and may or msy not be deported when their sentance is served. They remain the responsibility of the country of their nationality

There is no problem with countries denying or removing passports from their citizens if their behaviour has lost them the privilidge of travelling abroad. confiscating or denying a passport is not the same thing as stripping a person of citizenship. A passport is a privililidge not a right. You can lose that privilidge. You are still a citizen without a passport.

These things are distinct from making someone stateless. Stripping people of citizenship is not allowed unless they have dual citizenship so wont be stateless when the citizenship is stripped Britain is bending the rules too far by stripping citizenship from people who may or may not be able to claim another nationality by ancestry, but who have not yet attempted to do so.

The question is not do you or dont you pity Shemima, as an individual.

The questions here are is it right for Britain to bend the rules this far and who DO you think should "inherit" the problem of taking responsibility for persons made stateless.

People are not looking beyond the emotive side of this (She is evil Vs those poor babies) that the HO is getting away without their actions being properly debated.

Countries are not allowed to make people stateless FOR GOOD REASON. You can strip a dual citizen of citizenship. Shamima was not a dual citizen the arguement that she might be able to claim another nationality is not good enough

Think about the consequences of this. There is not enough talk about the consequences of countries bending and breaking this rule (but do NOT conflate tgis issue with removal of passports or not taking prisoners back with sentances left to serve, that is not the same thing)

Those who are found to support the Jihadi's in Australia are kicked out ! They've got the right idea, though unfortunately the country took in Somali's who've proved to be troublesome particularly in Melbourne so I don't know what their fates will be.

It's so unfair on the people of Oz to have to endure the crime that's caused also the police officers who have to contain the violence. Totally unfair !

What precident have we set? Can all the people we have awaiting for deportation just be made stateless and stranded here?

Is whatever country a person is in when they are made stateless automatically responsible for them & is that fair?

Those who are found to support the Jihadi's in Australia are kicked out !

To where if they are Australian?

Or are you infact alking about a completely different scenario?

Why do people disrespect the country that took these people in ??
Yet we have medical staff here from abroad who are on pins because of this Brexit debacle, who could be made to go through all the rigmarole of citizenship to remain in this country-----or else !
I know a paramedic from Transylvania, who's worried and it shouldn't be like this.

Shemima wasnt "taken in" Ellan she was a born and raised Brit.

Good god with attitudes like yours is it any wonder that British children who feel like their face will never fit here end up disinfranchised, angry and susceptable to radicalisation?

"These people" FFS

Notanan, I only feel for those who give something to this country------not plot to destroy it !!

Wow way to spectacularly miss the point there Ellan, bravo!

There is no problem with citizens serving prison sentances in the countries where they comit the crimes (so long as there was a fair trial and a non coerced confession, humaine proson conditions etc).
Under normal circumstances I agree with that notanan - but Syria is in utter chaos.
Who would administer justice there? Who decides what is just and what is not and who has committed crimes?
There has been civil war for years with outsiders from other countries pitching in and the country is in mayhem.

I don't do emotional blackmail !

I don't do emotional blackmail !

Or basic comprehension...

I agree Jal but I was just addressing some posts that have seemed to compare making British citizens stateless with other scenarios which arent comparable because citizenship isnt stripped necessarily when passports are denied or confiscated, or when prisoners arent taken back to serve sentances etc. And stripping a dual citizen of 1 nationality is also not comparable to making a person stateless.

Do you hear SB screaming out for British citizenship Notanan ? No-----neither do I ! Personally making a plea to change her ways ?

She's her own worst enemy.

......misses the point again....

P.s. you still havent told me where you think Australia would deport Australian terrorists to

Do you want Abu Hanza's son back ? He who fought with the Jihadi's ? He too was stripped of his citizenship and he's even begged to return,. and a suspected terrorist to boot.
If SB comes back, so does he ! Is that what you want Notanan ?

Australia has stripped some citizens who went to join ISIS of their Australian nationality - I presume they must have had dual nationality.