Shemima Begum

Sorry but why are you telling me that? Of course I know what it means. Sadly I may have missed out an apostrophe.

Lily65, apologies I misunderstood your post.

no probs Gravy.

And I was just being helpful!
?

"The grooming process is the same whether its sex, violence, drugs or extremism."

I think you will find the children groomed for sex are not volunteers, equating them with those who CHOOSE to travel to another country and support a group like ISIS is insulting to those girls who were raped and abused.

If what we now understand about Michael Jackson's grooming techniques is true , the children he seduced were very much volunteers and willing participants in what they only later realised was quite appalling abuse and betrayal of their childhood and ignorance.

In an earlier post I compared these girls with those girls who run off with teachers, other men in authority and family friends. In the privacy of their bedrooms they are groomed to be like lambs going to the slaughter when they flew out to Turkey.

Does nobody remember how profoundly ignorant and naive they were at 15, yet completely convinced that they were far more sophisticated and subtly in their understanding and experience than any adult gave them credit for?

Most girls groomed by sex gangs dont go kicking and screaming, they are manipulated into "chosing" to run away from home, or move to a different town with a "boyfriend" who ends up raping, abusing and pimping them out.

Young IS brides arent dragged onto planes, that doesnt mean they arent being manipulated and controlled, and once there raped abused and pimped.

Emotional/coercive abuse often preceeds sexual/physical abuse, victims may claim to be "chosing" the gang and defend them

Vulnerable and susceptable kids are love bombed, isolated, manipulated, then abused/indoctrinated.

Its the same process, and the further down the line they go the harder it is to do something about it.

Preventing/indentifying kids at the vulnerable/susceptable phase would work better than reacting to the end result....

Oh god this is frightening to read in the news just now:

“One veiled woman, feared to be among thousands of unrepentant fanatics who have fled Baghouz and surrendered to US-backed Kurdish forces, chillingly warned: 'We will seek vengeance, there will be blood up to your knees.

'We have left, but there will be new conquests in the future.”

Unrepentant, Unbroken and Radicalised.

Let's just hope they all kill each other, eh ? !!

Does nobody remember how profoundly ignorant and naive they were at 15 ?
Does anyone remember how some on GN were recently behind the push for voting at 16.
The two do not equate.
At 15 yrs and 11 months you are ignorant and naive but 32 days later able to vote with a confident working knowledge of what and who you are voting for.
Just how do you figure that out...? Answers on 1/4 size postage stamp.

I saw this quoted recently Gabriella - it could have been on here!
“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”

Mark Twain

I agree GG54 strange reasoning.

We need to bear in mind that stories/news are/is often ramped up to catch attention.
Ads do the same thing.
The headlines scream blue murder but read on and it's a cut finger.

I love that quote Jalima

Do you know what I find depressing over this particular case.

At odd times myself and other posters have raised the barbaric actions of ISIS , the Yazidi Christians and this thread has probably got as many posts as the rest of them put together.

Begum said she knew before she left the UK exactly what ISIS stood for and the barbarism ISIS were capable of
including BEHEADING , CRUCIFIXION.

She didn't wake up one morning and think I know ' I will go to Turkey today to join ISIS '. She was an intelligent girl who researched ISIS , planned it and carried it through and if ISIS had not been overpowered she would still be in Syria content knowing the barbarism that surrounded her, the barbarism she knew was taking place was for the good of the Caliphate.

She chose to join ISIS because she believed in the ' Caliphate' and that also means she believed that it was acceptable to ' 'KILL ALL KAFIRS ' that means you, me , our friends , our families our children and our babies. Sympathy is not a word those who joined ISIS understand, they are driven by hate.

Begum knew she was going to be an ISIS Bride and she said she requested to marry a European , which she did. Children born to ISIS women we know from an early age will be taught how to kill and they are considered as nothing more than potential ISIS fighters .

Begum knew women such as the Yazidi Christians had been raped, tortured, enslaved and probably been forced to watch their families, children and babies slaughtered , raped before they were taken to ISIS strongholds and suffered more abuse . The Yazidi women said the European wives of ISIS fighters were the worst and cruelest of the lot.

Begum has not never said she felt a shred of remorse and she is rightly in a camp for ISIS prisoners. Compared to the treatment those in ISIS afforded their captives I think they are probably thinking they are lucky their captors have treated them a hell of a lot better.

There is now some political protest to suggest that Shamima Begum should be allowed back into the UK. I do hope that the Home Secretary sticks to his guns. She is a traitor. She left the UK to join an enemy of this country. And as far as I'm concerned, she gave up all her rights as a UK citizen then.

It is only since her baby died that there has been this upsurge of support for her. Yes, it's sad. But her son's death doesn't change the facts.

She betrayed her own country to go and help/fight for an evil, barbaric regime, who have killed 1000's of people all over the world.

I don't want her 'remorse'. I want her to face the consequences of her betrayal.

And I certainly don't want her back here!

*At 15 yrs and 11 months you are ignorant and naive but 32 days later able to vote with a confident working knowledge of what and who you are voting for.
Just how do you figure that out...? Answers on 1/4 size postage stamp.*

If a child is radicalised/indoctrinated at 15 then the grooming had probably begun by 12/13.

I agree GabriellaG
Love the quote Jalima

Begum knew women such as the Yazidi Christians had been raped, tortured, enslaved and probably been forced to watch their families, children and babies slaughtered , raped before they were taken to ISIS strongholds and suffered more abuse . The Yazidi women said the European wives of ISIS fighters were the worst and cruelest of the lot.

So how can it be right to leave them there to be those countries ongoing problem after all thats been done by OUR citizens to that country already?

Do I think Shemima cam be rehabilitated/decinditioned at this point? No probably not shes probably past that point. Do I think there is an easy solution e what to do with OUR returning radicals - hell no its a seemingly impossible situation, but its an impossible situation for the countries we strand them in too, does noone care about that?

At some point a young Shamima fell through a net. It was OUR net on OUR watch. Its our mess to clean up

Forgot to add I do feel sorry for the innocent little babies and children.

She was a child with a child’s reasoning she was groomed she had a man wanting her, in her eyes he was fighting a just cause How many 15 year olds have run away to follow their heart
Her eyes have nothing in them when she speaks, she is empty she seems completely disconnected from the world she has lost everything three babies, her original family, her boyfriend /husband her means to live and her future yet some want to carry on punishing her more and more not only punishing her but wiping their hands of her I thought ‘Christians’ were supposed to show forgiveness and compassion
I wonder what would have been said if she was an English Rose with a fine upstanding British family, then it would have been a child making a mistake and worthy of taking back into the fold

Two more British women have been stripped of their citizenship. It doesn't look as if the Home Secretary is backing down.

So that is true British honour. Admitt people, let them become radicalised here, then turn our backs and make them someone else's problem. I thought our history of colonialism was bad enough, but at least they took some responsibility for the people they dominated. We now apparently take no responsibility for anything, it's always someone else's problem.

Gabriella I was NOT among those advocating votes at 16, for just the same reasons, I have given in my emails here.

I was politically aware from a very young age, but I can see now, and more importantly, I could see then that I had too little experience of life to vote on issues I did not fully comprehend. I was still in my 20s when the voting age was reduced to 18 and I did not think then that it was a good idea.

In the 5 years between 18 and 22, during which I was at university in Newcastle upon Tyne, when the heavy industry in the area, iron, steel, coal and ship-building were all in decline and then returning south and living in North Paddington during the time of Rachman, and the influx of the Windrush generation and witnessing some of what they suffered, my political attitudes and views changed enormously. By the time I got the vote I had begun to understand the complexities of decision making and the choices that needed to be made.