Misreading the country?

glad to see all you happy well balanced people are out, here being kind and having a great time.

Harmony I see in all the posters, I feel all warm and fuzzy..Thank you for welcoming me

a great balanced forum not dominated by anyone

PamelaJ Quote [1s it a bad week for the leavers grandad? You may be right.
Such a shame that our hopes are pinned on the E.U.? Our parliament has made a bit of a balls up of it. On that we agree.
However we and Mrs May will prevail we hope.] End Quote.

PamelaJ, as I have stated earlier in this thread, I am someone who voted remain in the Referendum. However, in the last two weeks, I have come round to wishing to see Theresa May's deal being passed by the House of Commons. In that, it would solve the Irish border issue, secure continued frictionless trade through the ports and allow British Business to have at least some certainty to plan for the future.

The withdrawal agreement is in no way perfect, but it will take Britain out of the European Union as was the wish demonstrated by the referendum while containing all the above in the interests of the UK.

I feel that in the last few days there has been a gain in support for Theresa Mays withdraw agreement from both those on the leave and remain sides. After all, there is no other deal on the table as Parliament voted down all other options that have been put forward

So, I believe we are in agreement PamelaJ, and perhaps with many more engaging in pragmatic thinking the UK will again begin to move forward and heal the deep divides that Brexit has opened up.

I have also moved from a no deal to TM’s deal Grandad43 and you have moved from Remain to her deal. So we have reached a compromise. There may be hope for us all yet!
??
I hope her deal gets through next Tuesday.
We can but hope.

I've missed a few pages - if this is the same deal we were talking about yesterday pm I hope so too.

And yet again the majority of the British people who want to remain in the EU would be ignored??

Sorry varian but rules is rules.
What else can we say?

I hope so too, this deal is on the table for us to take, and move on to the next negotiating stage for a trade deal.
Parliament needs to accept it asap!

what rules Ursmstongran?

Rules on fraud? Rules on foreign interference and dodgy money from abroad. Rules on declaring offices and staff working on a campaign rather than the business? Laws re Referendums being advisory? Our Parliamentary Democracy?

Again, what can I do about it? Getting het up won’t make an iota of difference now will it? The powers that be aren’t investigating the wrong doing you describe. Have you contacted your MP and asked him/her view on it all? It’s futile mentioning it here really.

the fact is
the majority of those who voted

voted leave..
jolly simple

remain lost

leave won..

easy to understand?

giggling

Again, what can I do about it?

You could try to appear to be a bit embarrassed by your association with corrupt practices.

Perhaps just becoming aware of it and not be in denial would be helpful.

But I agree- it is the Labour Party mainly, who should have insisted this is investigated properly right from the start- and who should have made it public that investigations where being thwarted or even stopped, by the Government.

At this stage however, the Labour Party could put together a very very strong and convincing dossier together - highlighting all those issues - publishing them and also the fact that the Electoral Commission have said the Ref should be voided due to above - but can't as it was, by Law, advisory.

Which makes a total mockery of Democracy.

In the meantime, Mrs Maa wants a THIRD vote, and probably a FOURTH. Did you read Peston's prediction- that ERG and DUP are likely to vote for the Deal this time- it will still not pass but the numbers against will be further diminished - enbolding Mrs May to go for a fourth at the last minute- which ERG and possibly DUP would go against again - throwing us into No Deal at the very last minute...

Scary times- and all daggers out.

andy ^the fact is
the majority of those who voted

voted leave.^
Unfortunately they all envisaged a different sort of 'leave' . Whereas the 48% who voted remain were united.
Grandad1943 didn't the DUP vote against the deal because they didn't consider it acceptable? How then would it solve the N Ireland problem? Much as I dislike the DUP they do represent a body of people in NI and people who have in the past been responsible for violence.

It seems the DUP might support TM’s deal in the vote on Tuesday - in exchange for a seat at the negotiating table in the future. Ollie Robbins won’t be getting all his own way then, that’s for sure!

Lets just hope that the deal goes through. It is a compromise which is as it should be. No one can get exactly what they want, but everyone gets something and I think most right minded people would settle for that and be prepared to move on and make peace with ourselves again. The thought of this particular saga dragging on for another goodness knows how long is, I'm sure for most us us ,more than body and soul can bear!!!! So fingers crossed!!

^ Much as I dislike the DUP they do represent a body of people in NI and people who have in the past been responsible for violence.^
I wonder if those who represent the other side in NI took their seats, instead of refusing, would make a difference when the vote is very close.

Like those who did not vote in the referendum, they have no right to complain if they do not exercise their rights.

as a post script

I would be very annoyed indeed if my MP either refused to take a seat or failed to turn up for crucial votes - which some appear to have done.

as a post script

I would be very annoyed indeed if my MP either refused to take a seat or failed to turn up for crucial votes - which some appear to have done.

I have no idea why that posted twice, as I could not post at all!

Totally agree Jabberwok ??

A compromise is when neither side is completely happy. Each side gets something out of TM’s (rotten) deal. But it’s ‘good enough’. Just not for the hardliners on BOTH sides.
It’s good enough for me. I used to be just Leave on WTO terms.

I’m now happy to compromise. Are others though?

Just let us be out. We magaged before. People signed up years ago to a Common Market, not every decision we make having to be sanctioned by Belgium. Sooner they have no say the better.

We managed before.

But we didn't manage before. Where did this weird idea come from? We were begging to join the EEC for years before they let us in. Once we'd lost our empire and spent all the Marshall Aid money on shoring up our 'status' in the world,instead of investing it in the UK, we were declining fast.

Also, you might not have noticed but the world has moved on a great deal since 1973. We can't go back to it.

not every decision we make having to be sanctioned by Belgium.

I despair, I really do despair

Repeating a falsehood over and over again does not make it true.

We have full sovereignty over all of our domestic law and have chosen to share sovereignty in some areas, such as trade, in which we have a say, have even initiated some policies, and which work mostly to our benefit.

I'd be so pleased to hear some specifics of how the EU (not Belgium, that's a fellow member state) has exerted control over all our decisions...

Took a break to listen to Vince Cable amazing speech - a wonderful man and such an intelligent politician. Who does not lie, does not put his ambition first and has a very clear grasp of what is going on.

And where he touched on a massively important fact- the UK political system, based on First Past the Post system - ensure we have perpetual see saw politics- where common sense and cooperation are practically impossible.

We are being sold down the river by both the right and the left- and the consequences will be dire.

Maizie, you will never get specifics about lies told by the remain campaign- or Laws which we had to endure because of the EU, which we did not either instigate or ratified- or that we could not have vetoed.

For very good reasons ...

we cant half leave, that is silly,

I actually voted to leave, ie leave totally

that is what leave means