Scottish Independence

I would 100 times rather stay in UK as you must have noticed by now!

Scotland is certainly large enough in population to be independent if it wants. Look at Iceland, which a population less than one-tenth of the size of Scotland. Norway has a smaller population, also Ireland, Croatia, Latvia, Lithuania and many more.

Julia9TC people in Iceland often work two jobs to keep themselves afloat financially . Independant Scotland under the SNP would be a disaster.

Jane10 I’m with you on Scotland remaining part of the UK. It would be disastrous if we left. However I do have confidence that this will not happen. If there were another referendum I think that the majority for remaining in the UK would increase and, god forbid, in the (very) remote possibility that the “Leavers” won, there would be so many issues thrown up that the current problems with leaving the EU, would pale in significance and there would be years of unrest, which would be disastrous for Scotland.
The situation regarding Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland has been impossible to negotiate and is probably the main reason that there has been no Brexit agreement. At the moment, the border is currently rendered invisible by the Good Friday Agreement, which means there is free passage between the 2 countries and no passports are required to cross it. However when the UK leaves the EU this border becomes an external EU border. However far the UK diverges, Ireland will have no choice but to "police" the border; indeed it will be legally obliged to do so by the EU.
Think then of a Scotland / England border. If Scotland wanted to rejoin the EU, this border would also become an external EU border and subject to the same issues as Ireland! Scotland would be required to police this border! What about those who live in Scotland, but work in England and vice versa! Would they require passports? Would there be different currencies, or would Scotland have to adopt the euro as a condition on being accepted back into the EU. That is IF they let us back in.
I voted Remain in both referendums, a United Kingdom, in the EU. paddyann and Granny23 seem to think that my vote (and others who voted the same) would automatically mean that the vote to remain in the EU means more than the vote to remain in the UK! Total bollocks, the vote to remain as part of the UK takes much greater precedence than that to remain in the EU.
As far as I am concerned now, the sooner we leave the UK the better, even if it were a “no deal.”

You have got it so wrong Chucky . The best hope for our country (and I speak as someone who identifies as Scottish, British and European) is for parliament to Revoke Article 50 so thew UK remains in the EU.

This could happen at any time before we leave and it would be best if it happened this month, before 29th March. If you agree join us in London on Saturday.

www.peoples-vote.uk/

varian you don’t seem to believe in democracy? I do.
As I have previously said, I voted to remain as part of the EU. I was pretty gutted at the result but as part of a country which is supposed to be democratic, I expect the results to be adhered to, whether it was what I voted for or not.
I also voted to remain part of the UK and again expect that democratic result to be upheld.
We should be a “UNITED KINGDOM” independent from the EU. Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK. The UK then voted to leave the EU! There was then a General Election! Both the Scottish Conservative and Labour candidates had a significant increase in the number of the electorate voting for their party, while the SNP vote drastically reduced (figures in a previous post).Does that suggest that the Scottish people want to leave the UK? No it doesn’t. It shows that they wish to remain as part of a United Kingdom!
Anything else is undemocratic and risks the the very foundation that democracy is built on.
With regard to Brexit, it is disgusting that MPs are failing to represent their constituents! I am sure that in the next General Election many will suffer the consequences of putting their wishes ahead of those who elected them to power.

If you believe in democracy suppodf a People's vote.

I've already made my 'people's vote'. It was to remain but I respect democracy so just wish we could just get on and leave EU. This constant uncertainty is more damaging than taking the deal and problem solving after that.

or we could revoke article 50, remain- and explain clearly, with all the evidence to hand- why this is the best option, and why the Ref was fraudulent in so many ways. Very much an option- and a very democratic one too.

Can you stop Police, teachers, nurses etc as examples of poorly paid workers. They could and can opt out working for peanuts if they're not happy, as can any one else whose job doesn't pay them what they think they deserve.
Train to be a train driver...anything, just stop bleating about it. It's always the same jobs that get cited year after year.

* should read stop saying.

If the residents of Scotland think it's right and proper for them to have autonomy, why is deemed improper for residents of England to enjoy that right?

paddyann wrote:
...
Its not extreme to believe in your own people running your own country...for goodness sake its what most of the world do.

varian since when did democracy mean ignoring a legal referendum result??? Or is your type of democracy ignoring the votes of those who disagree with you? If you ignore a democratic decision, because you want a different, supposedly democratic result, I’m afraid that isn’t actually democracy! Do you need a further explanation of what it is? You are ignoring the fact that millions of people in this country made this democratic decision, which irrespective of whether you like it or not, must be upheld. I voted Remain, but guess what, I accept the legal result of the referendum and as far as I am concerned now, we can’t leave quick enough, even if it’s a “no deal” which would be preferable to a soft Brexit!

jura2 You and varian should get together, 2 individuals who think that there is only one type of democracy, their opinion, and f**k everyone who doesn’t share it!
Who exactly is the we who could revoke article 50? Perhaps you are overestimating the importance of Sunday’s demonstration. Noise does not destroy democracy, no matter how hard you try! Parliament is the only place where article 50 could be revoked, not by a noisy bunch of demonstrators who think that their opinion is the only one that matters!

By the way Jura, did you vote in the Scottish Independence and Brexit referendums? I thought you lived abroad and had abandoned this country?

since when did democracy mean ignoring a legal referendum result

Has it completely passed you by, Chuckie that the referendum result is badly tainted by illegality and cheating (not to mention Russian interference). Even the Prime Minister admitted that through her Attorney General in court. Had been mandatory rather than advisory it could have been declared void.

Do you think that cheating and law breaking is an acceptable way to run a democratic vote?

I thought you lived abroad and had abandoned this country?

Well, you know what thought thought, don't you?

MaizieD

MaizieD
“I thought you lived abroad and had abandoned this country?”

“Well, you know what thought thought, don't you?”

Well actually MaizieD Yes thought thought right!

“I have only visited Scotland as a tourist - so really cannot claim any knowledge or experience”

“I thought you lived in Switzerland jura2?”

“Yes, but we still have one very strong foot in England, and a property there- thank you.”

So guess that I’m at least right about that MaizieD.
This is a Scottish Referendum thread, Jura lives in Switzerland, so her concern must be about her property she has in England, whilst it looks like she doesn’t think Scotland are even worth visiting!!

Can I ask, before I reply, which referendum result is apparently tainted by illegality and cheating, Brexit or Scottish Independence?

Oh well MaisieD seems you didn’t like it when thought thought was shown to be wrong!!!

Seems that responding to this has “completely passed you by.

Chuky, you totally lost me there ?!?

Read previous posts jura. It'll make sense then.

Jane10 'Jura lives in Switzerland, so her concern must be about her property she has in England, whilst it looks like she doesn’t think Scotland are even worth visiting!!'

still does not make sense. My concern is not at all about our property in the UK (a 2 bed flat in a small market town) - why would I be worried about it? It has done well actually in the 10 years (wow - it is actually 10 days to the day I've just noticed) and up 40% in value. No worries there.

Scotland are not worth visiting??? Where does that come from??? We have visited only once, and would love to go again. The Trossachs and Isle of Mull, Skye, etc- looking for otters and white tailed eagle- wonderful. I went with friends to Aviemore skiing once too. When we lived in UK, we always spent out holiday near my elderly parents in Switzerland, and with them in France- and we went skiing in nearby France or Switzerland in cheap resorts- and parents came with us. I've visited the whole of the UK, apart from the Gower Pinsula (on top of my list with the Scily Isles) and Northumberland- also on the list - with a visit to the East coast of Scotland.

Yes, I live in Switzerland, after a lifetime working int he UK, with my British husband and children. Working very hard indeed- and now living in a very expensive country on a Sterling pension melting in the sunshine- NOT complaining, just saying. We moved to look after my very elderly parents.

Crossed my mind yesterday as I was driving home - Trump will ask for massive things in return for any deal- we all know the NHS and lower husbandry welfare in agriculture and reduced workers' rights.

But perhaps there is more. He will probalbly want to use the UK as a military base in Europe (well sort of ) - if Scotland becomes independent - where will the nuclear bases move to?

*jura2
Gower *Peninsula
Isles of Scilly

My point is jura2 you have chosen to leave the UK. Don’t blame you, Switzerland must be nearly as beautiful as Scotland. However my issue is that you no longer live in the UK, so really what has Scotland gaining independence matter to you, or Brexit for that matter. These are issues for the people living in these countries and who’s lives will be affected. Apologies for my thread saying “Scotland worth visiting”, cutting and pasting got a bit mixed up and did not mean to say that on this post. Problem with trying to respond on several different posts at once .

Chucky- if you re-read my posts, I totally agree Scottish independence has little or nothing to do with me - all I said was that Brexit has changed the situation and I could not blame Scotish peole if they chose to become independent. I also stated that I was a firm believer in the Union, until recently.

As for Brexit- I am sorry but it does affect both of us very much indeed- and in 100s of ways. OH has just served lunch, so if you want clarification - do ask and I'll get back to you later. Main issue of so many, is that we are totally dependent on our UK pensions in Sterling, which has gone down 50% in 10 years, and will probably tank even lower because of Brexit. Now if you think that is 'not being affected' - I'd liek to know how you would feel if your pension was cut by 50%, then 60%, then 70% ...? Would you feel 'unaffected'?