Scottish Independence

Gabriella England does rule itself..always has done,with 80+% of MP's being English the rest of us haven't a cats chance in hell of getting anything we want passed ..unless its in Englands interest .WE have no say on English matters which is right and proper ...but they have say in Scottish matters that wont affect them .Not my idea of democracy .

As a scot I don't see 'us' and 'them'. We are all British. We are represented at Westminster. We have had lots of Scottish PMs come to that. I don't hear complaints about that.

Bit like the EU paddyann! The UK's voice has been consistently overlooked for ??? years! that's why we want to leave, just like you wanting to leave the UK! The only difference is, that Westminster would wave you goodbye and wish you good luck no strings attached, whereas the EU is being as obstructive as possible and charging is a fortune! Still can't understand how independence = joining the EU?!! Not sure you'll find much independence there!

thats not trueJabberwok the UK was only on the "wrong " side of a vote 74 times in 40 odd years ,thats pretty good odds ,nobody wins every time .Westminster wont wish us luck and wave us goodbye ..we bring too much to the table .Figues out today show that Scotland owns 34% of all UK Natural reserves thats a fair bit for 8% of the population .The EU makes just 5% of rules and laws for teh UK .Westminster is in control of around 80% of Scottish legislation .Thats a huge difference .We dont have to join ,we've already been told that as long as we gain Independence quickly it would be seamless as the rules and laws are already in place .England is a foreign land to me ,unlike Jane I dont think of myself as "british" That is not to say I'm anti English as I said before I have an English GD ,and loads of English born family who I love dearly .I just dont love their Parliament and how its run .

jura2 I am sorry your pensions has reduced, however, I am much more concerned about how the 2 issues affect those of us who still live in Scotland, or on the broader issue the UK, rather than those who choose to move abroad! You are considerably luckier than most of us in that you have a choice on where you live, whereas most of us do not have that luxury and will have to muddle along whatever happens.

I voted Remain in both referendums and as I support democracy I expect both results to be adhered to. As I have already said, just because you dont get your own way in a referendum does not mean the result should be ignored!
With all that has happened since the EU referendum I now just want Brexit as soon as possible and would rather have a no deal than this continue to drag on, as the longer this issue goes on the longer it is until this country can move forward instead of being stuck in this uncertainty.

On the issue of finance, the UK is far stronger, both financially and otherwise if we stick together. I live in Southern Scotland and my area has seen some businesses close and relocate over the border in Cumbria or Northumberland. The issue of Scottish Independence and its uncertainty, has been a large factor in this.

Chuky of course our reduced pensions have nothing to do with Scottish Independence. All I have said is that previously I was totally in strong favour of the Union- but that now, I could not blame those who would like independence

But you chose to mix the two 'so really what has Scotland gaining independence matter to you, or Brexit for that matter. These are issues for the people living in these countries and who’s lives will be affected.'

And here I am entitled to reply that Brexit will affect us hugely- in 100s of ways. Our family is still in the UK, we also intended to go back to the UK at some point ... you stated- I replied.

Strangely enough, if the £ tanks further and we sell up here to return- we will make 60, 70% profit overnight.

That is simply wrong chucky Scotland is paying through the nose to Westminster,we're paying £180 Million a year for Trident and a share of everything WM decides to spend on,including all those things that dont /wont benefit the people of Scotland .HS2 ,London sewers .London crossrail Big Ben refurb,They're using us as a dumping ground for nuclear waste and old subs .THEY run up the "national debt" more than doubled since labour left Downing St and we 're expected to pay a share of debts that aren't ours.HOW is that better financially together ?

Paddyann I'm sure you really believe all the stuff that you spout but, alas for you, there is another side to all this, the side where Scotland is subsidised and financially underwritten by the UK.
We can only agree to differ on Scottish 'independence'.

www.businessforscotland.com/revealed-the-accounting-trick-that-hides-scotlands-wealth

Worth a read Jane.

Scotland is not and never has been subsidised Jane,there are Scottish accounts from as far back as the mid 19th century that show we pay far more in than we get back.The sad thing is people are taken in by the too wee too poor thing thats been spouted by WM for literally centuries. And they call US sheep!!Have faith in your country ,have a vision for its future we are without any doubt a very wealthy nation or we would be IF we weren't giving it all to our neighbour

I have absolutely no faith in the Scottish gov't having endured their attempts at running the country for more than 10 years. I similarly have no faith in data produced by business organisations with an independence agenda. We will not agree that independence is other than a daft notion.
I don't know why we keep having this sort of thread except to demonstrate to non Scottish grans that we're definitely not all fans of SNP.

Why are we have this sort of thread?

Well, you are quite right- most of us are not Scottish - but we are still interested in Scotland and how Scottish people feel. It seems, sadly, that they are as divided as the rest of the UK- but I do feel the tide is turning.

Nicola had a huge success at the march today and her speech was really appreciated by all present.

I know quite a lot of Scots who no longer live in Scotland, so perhaps they should not be entitled to 'a view' on this.

I have not met one yet who agrees with independence and all loathe Sturgeon with a vengeance.

all of them.

just the opposite here, somehow.

Interesting!
The ones I know live in England and Wales, and some are in Canada.
Not entitled to vote, obviously.

My next door neighbours are both from Lanarkshire and they detest NS and all that she has done so far in her tenure. They have both said that she has caused as much division in Scotland as Cameron has done in the rest of the UK.

They actually refer to her as Wee Nicky Kranky.

the ones I know live in UK, France and Switzerland.

They are all sick of Labour and Conservatives. Coincidence- yes. But we do tend to meet and talk to those with similar pov- I suppose.

I echo everything Jane10 has said. But she is wasting her energy in trying to refute anything said by SNP supporters - there is nothing on their agenda except independence. The proof of that is in our schools, hospitals, police service, roads ... Nicola Sturgeon certainly talks the talk but she does not walk the walk and is reviled, Jura, by many who actually live here in Scotland ...

the ones I know live in UK, France and Switzerland.
They all escaped as well then!!
But why are those in Switzerland sick of the Labour and the Conservatives? Does it affect them at all?

Obviously this affects my Scottish friends in England and Wales but those living overseas would not be concerned.

But why are those in Switzerland sick of the Labour and the Conservatives

Good question Jalima.

If you want Scotland to have their independence, include England in the vote next time!

Of course wee Nicola was well received at the march in London. She was only saying what the crowd wanted to hear. Grandstanding as usual!
there is nothing on their agenda except independence. The proof of that is in our schools, hospitals, police service, roads ..
Now we'll get another rant about salary increases, etc facts and figures to suit that agenda, but we on the ground know better!
Be in no doubt, wee Nicola, and the rest of the SNP, can wave our flag around all they want,but they do not speak for Scotland

jura2 “But you chose to mix the two 'so really what has Scotland gaining independence matter to you, or Brexit for that matter.”
I live in Scotland (and the UK) therefore both matter a lot to me! I am not squirrelled away in Switzerland, with my only worry how votes, by those who live in and support this country, will affect my pension! You say Nicola had great success yesterday! Of course she did, one thing she is really good at, is opening that big mouth of hers!

paddyann I agree with jane10 “I'm sure you really believe all the stuff that you spout but, alas for you, there is another side to all this, the side where Scotland is subsidised and financially underwritten by the UK.”
Yep, Paddyann, you are like everyone else, who twist facts and figures to suit themselves!!
Being honest, I can never get over how amazing it is (not just in this, but politics as a whole) that the politicians can always manage to find the statistics to spout to back their case!!

All this shouting for another referendum (in both cases) only causes more divisions in the country and costs millions of pounds which could be spent much better on education and health. When will the SNP realise that the Scottish people do not want independence?? What they want is for wee nic and her cronies to concentrate her energies on health, education and other essential services in Scotland. If she put as much time and energy ( into those as she does Independence, Scotland would be in a much better situation! She can shout as much as she likes, but she does not speak for the majority of Scottish people!

Chucky said "Being honest, I can never get over how amazing it is (not just in this, but politics as a whole) that the politicians can always manage to find the statistics to spout to back their case!!"

What is amazing is that the Unionists among us, either can't be bothered to look, or can't find, statistics to back up their claims about Scotland's massive debts, Police numbers, average wages, etc. Occasionally they will quote something through the prism of the Unionist Press but seldom do they seek out the source and actual figures behind the headlines.

As to the 'awful' Scottish Parliament, elected under PR rules such that the number of MSPs for each party more accurately represents the number of votes cast than FPT ,remember that the SNP does not have a majority of seats. In order to pass any legislation there has to be support from one or more other parties or individuals. All it would take to defeat SNP proposals is for all of the other MSPs to vote against. Nicola Sturgeon IS First Minister of Scotland and is therefore as entitled to speak for her Country as any other head of state. If people in Scotland revile her and her Party as much as you say then why does she and her party continue to win more seats and a greater share of the votes than any other?