“Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU” Petition

Thanks Notanan2. The petition is now being scrupulously checked and verified as far as anyone is able online. It's very interesting to look at the additional information about where the votes have come from and the map of Britain showing percentages of votes from constituencies. I'm surprised some of the mainstream media are trying so hard to dismiss its results.

At this stage in our political and economic crisis, all voices should be listened to.

Why should anyone be surprised that the media want to downplay the march? Looking at the front pages of the Sunday papers, only the Observor featured the biggest ever march in London which happened only yesterday on its front page.

The rest featured some story about a "coup" in the Tory party, obviously made up as a diversion from the importance of the march.

We know what our newspapers did to support the leave campaign, Just look at the ownership of our press. These foreign billionaires and tax exiles who control the MSM have their own agenda.

And this is not condescending?.

No, Joerlsnan, it was an expression of frustration. Just look at what I quoted from your post and then responded to.

MaizieD
Strange isnt it how so many people are shouting foul play over (alleged) external influences affecting our voting system, yet when there are thousands outside UK completing a petition to try to influence a democratic decision
Can I ask what you find so frustrating about this statement?
Can you also tell me how you are able to ascertain that those who signed the petition would indeed all be eligible to take part in a UK election or referendum by nature of their vacation or ex-pat status?

Joelsnan: yet when there are thousands outside UK completing a petition to try to influence a democratic decision

It has been pointed out several times on this thread that the people signing from outside the UK are most likely to be perfectly eligible UK citizens who are working or living abroad (i,e not absent for 15 years or more) or on holiday. As such they are perfectly entitled to try to influence a decision (which I refuse to call democratic because democracy and fraud don't go together in my book) in the UK. We haven't reached the stage yet when UK citizens aren't allowed to leave the country or lose their rights if they do so...

I completely fail to understand why you cannot grasp this simple fact. The only explanation I can think of is that you do not want to grasp this simple fact.

MaizieD
You continue to repeat the same content which in part is correct. However, what you fail to grasp and explain is:
How do you determine who of those who voted from overseas would actually be eligible? The petition does not require proof of eligibility to vote so, you go on about ex pats and folk on vacation but not whether they would be eligible voters.
Unless each petitioner is verified against the electoral register there can be no credibility
Just as you and other try to state that at least 48million UK residents didn’t vote to leave the EU without confirming how many of those were eligible to voters and indeed of those who were confirmed to be eligible but did not choose to vote how many would in truth would have voted to remain. As your assertions regarding overseas petitioners cannot be verified neither can the assertion that all those 48million would be remain voters.

I completely fail to understand why you cannot grasp this simple fact. The only explanation I can think of is that you do not want to grasp this simple fact
I have to say this statement of yours demonstrates your own misunderstanding of fact.

According to the Guardian 96% of the votes were cast in the UK. The system of having to confirm via an email would filter out many fake votes. Of course some people have multiple emails but the numbers are still very high.

Nandalot, my son lives in England (born here too), has received voting cards for every other election at his address but somehow managed to be missed off for the Referendum. He tried to get this sorted as soon as he realised but it was too late. I have no idea whether this was rigged against a leave voter or a remainer as there was no point in him having a view if he wasn't able to vote. Half my children voted leave, the other half voted to remain. Strangely enough we managed to have opposing views without ever falling out but the one thing we all agree upon, is that they all think that now the vote has been taken to Leave, it is incumbent upon the politicians to act on it.

@*Joelsnan*. I don't have to explain which of the overseas signers are eligible to vote. The implication of your original statement was that all the signatories from overseas had no business to be interfering with with the UK's business.
If you will acknowledge that a) this is not true, as has been pointed out more times than is necessary now,and b) this is a petition, which is not the same thing as an election or referendum and doesn't have to be signed by registered voters, I'll shut up.

I have three email addresses, so could have signed three times. I think most people have more than one account.

I have 3 email accounts and it would never cross my mind to sign more than once and I actually think that many people are decent enough to behave properly. Also I have no idea and I guess no one on here does how many people have more than one email account.

Heading for five and a half million signatures now

I take the comment about overseas signers and people having multiple email addresses but most of us just use the one. However 5.3 million signatures and an average of about 8% responses in each constituency does indicate a depth of feeling which should not be ignored. The million of so who marched on Saturday also should be heeded.

In order to have another vote article 50 will probably have to be revoked or at least put on hold. If the UK takes part in European Elections it will give a more reliable indication of the nations feelings. If article 50 is revoked it can be re-instated following a second vote.

A second vote is democratic because:
1. Since 2016 roughly 2 million electors have passed away and roughly the same number of younger voters become eligible. The future belongs to the younger generation who are more aware than they are given credit for.
2. The implications of leaving the EU are now much clearer.
3. Many of us both leavers and remainers voted for reasons that had little to do with the EU. Immigration could have been controlled but both Labour and Tory governments could not be bothered to check and return those who did not work like many other EU countries.
4 In the EU we can trade other countries if we make things they want. The demise of UK manufacturing is down to bad government and bad management of many years, this is slowly being reversed.
5. The need for EU and other immigration is down to poor education and a lack of training of UK people. You cannot blame the EU for this.
6. If Brexit is so good why is Honda closing its UK plant. James Dyson moving to Singapore. Jacob Rees Mogg shifting part of his business to Dublin. Why can't the Irish Border issue be sorted.

TM's deal is the worst of all deals being tied into the EU with no say and not what was voted for. A Hard Brexit with no Trade deals will make us much poorer.

I have three email addresses, so could have signed three times. I think most people have more than one account.

Multiple entries from same IP address are noted, making allowances for families etc...

There are statistical ways of analysing this to see if its within the normal varation of housholds/users, or above (i.e. same ppl entering multiple times).

There appears to be low levels of the latter for this particular petition compared to the normal variation for petitions.

This is for real. Sorry to disappoint some..

I have 2 email accounts but haven't used one of them for years. However, I did let someone else use it to sign the petition because they didn't have access to the internet or an email account. I don't see that anyone should be disenfranchised because they aren't on the internet.

It would never have occurred to me to have used it to sign twice.

I think people are getting a bit desperate when they try to dismiss it. I think if you will try and cheat you won’t be able to. People saying that you can haven’t tried it because they would be adding to something they don’t want! You can’t test it and then remove your name!

I think both the petition and march are commendable shows of opinion, however the credibility of the petition cannot be measured against the referendum result unless every petition is verified against the electoral register.

In the next general election should we have two votes. One for those who are alive on the voting day and then another maybe a month later for those who have attained 18 and can replace those who have died (and may have been part of a disliked majority) so may swing the result towards the previous minority.

I am no hardline leaver. I did vote leave but was prepared to change if the remain views had been more credible than thise which swayed me towards leave. I contest the claims made on these threads for proof of credibility and well reasoned arguments which would make me change my mind. I have yet to be swayed.

No its not as credible as a vote

But as petitions go , analysis of this particular petition is showing even LOWER levels of multi votes/bot style patterns than average petitions incl save our church spire type ones

I think both the petition and march are commendable shows of opinion, however the credibility of the petition cannot be measured against the referendum result unless every petition is verified against the electoral register.

Thank you for that Joelsnan

But I think it's credibility is just fine. As I said earlier, it's not a vote, it's an expression of how people feel and the huge response shows a 'feeling' in the UK which should not be ignored. or demeaned.

And it shows ten times as much strength of feeling compared with the leave means leave petition, which has barely exceeded half a million signatures after running since October.

varian
This is not a competition to see who can shout loudest.
I dont care who marches or who petitions (and I think so do the majority) everyone has a democratic right to express their views, so good on them However,
Only the ballot boxes have credibility..
If we get another referendum...so be it.

Joelsnan I'm confused! your post at midnight:

Unless each petitioner is verified against the electoral register there can be no credibility

Surely I must have misunderstood that - the petition is open to British people who reside outside the UK and are not on an electoral register?

humptydumpty
You are right.
But, what I was trying to point out was to those who were comparing the petition numbers to the referendum result and claiming 'only so many millions to go an we will have overthrown the referendum, come on lets get to 6 million etc.'
This cannot be right. You may get a petition of 20 million but unless each of the petitions were deemed valid UK voters the petition result cannot overthrow the referendum. As an indication of a remainers feeling that is okay, just dont think of it as anything other than that..an indication of feeling.

Many thanks to Cindersdad for a very clear explanation of why the march and petition should not be ignored.

I agree with Caledonai14, thank you Cindersdad, but then it is logical to those who are prepared to listen.