The Second World War and Great Britain - we were not alone

vigdis You miss understand me. I know many people will be affected, but do you have a clue how any of the options, including staying in will affect you? I doubt it.

Nobody does, it is a complete b*ggers muddle. That is why I say it is so boring. Nobody has a clue what is happening or how it will effect individuals, businesse,s the public sector or any other group affects. It is just people spouting millions and billions of pointless words.

When there is a chance that clear decsisions are being made and sensibly and carefully thought through, then I will be back in the fray with the best of them, but currently all the politicians, commnetators and rank amateurs are nothing but a lot of ferrets fighting in a sack, wasting time and energyto no purpose that can be better spent thinking and watching.

I think the OP posted because like me, she/he had read some brexiteers on GN state that Britain managed alone in the war and survived rationing etc. and so can survive without the EU. That is not to say that that is the view of the majority of the brexiteers on GN but it is certainly the view of some if they believe what they have posted.

Exactly Monica spurious arguements about Brexit popping up everywhere....I expect it’s the fault of leave voters that some people’s daffodils haven’t come up.
Too much OTT emotion going on.

MOnica
No, I don't know exactly what will happen but, like most concerned people running a business, I - we - are gearing up for what could possibly become a problem, and the ways in which we can, now, do something about such problems. We have already solved a couple of issues through discussions and research - so a little less to worry about. So, although Brexit is not an exact science, I beg to differ on your opinion that I don't have a "clue" - I do, in fact have a few clues and me and my partner are dealing with them pro-actively so that whatever the outcome, we can continue with our business as efficiently as possible.

I didn't misunderstand at all. You find the issue "boring" - but we are not all compelled to think like you. And if you find it so boring, why are you even on this thread? That bit, I don't understand, admittedly.

Been out all day- and some of the replies are quite shocking. So will try to reply.

Day6: 'This post is for all those who complacently - even gloatingly - say things like "We stood and won WW2 alone" and "We survived rationing without help during WW2, Brexit will be a piece of cake.

I have not heard even ONE person who wants to leave the EU say anything like this. Not one.

The words above yours were those written by the older officer who wrote the article, not mine.
And I am afraid that interviews with some Leavers, and comments on Leavers' sites- say it again and again, in many guises 'we survived the war so we can survive Brexit and stand alone again' or 'we beat the Gerries single-handed and if it was not for us we would all be speaking German now' - again and again. You are very lucky if you have not been exposed to those comments. I often wanted to react to this, but felt it was not my place, as a non British born (although British for 45+ years), and also as a post war born- to do this.

These kind of comments were stated so many times during last Friday's march - often quite violently and menacingly. So today, when this gentleman's statement was posted on a remain site, with the gentleman present and responding- it stuck a chord. He clearly chose to write the piece as a remainer, and with the current situation in mind- and I felt it was worth sharing- as he is entitled to make the comments from his services and sacrifice in the war.

I am sorry some of you chose to misinterpret and distort my intentions, and his. If he could read some of the comments, I am sure he would be shocked and really disappointed, that his words whipped such a reaction.

Eglantine 'I still object to Jura posting that list when some of the people she listed were shot down and killed by the Swiss or died in their internment camps.'

internment camps in Switzerland? I think you need to explain? Swiss shooting down those on the list?

But this thread is not about the Swiss- and if you'd like to discuss the rôle of the Swiss in WW2- I am happy to debate and discuss- but this is NOT the place.

I am on this thread because when I read the OP I did not realise it was a Brexit thread. I thought it was simply because someone had said something, not in a Brexit context, jingoistic and the OP had over reacted.

I am of course very interested and concerned about Brexit and it there was anything I could usefully do, beyond applying for an Irish passport, which I am, as I am entitled to one, I would do it.

vigdis, you are lucky that there is something you can do. You are part of a very select minority

For the majority of us there is absolutely nothing we can do so why so many people feel the need to say the same things again and again to absolutely no purpose at all I do not understand.

I like GN. I am just getting bored stiff with these endless identical threads saying nothing useful or interesting.

I haven’t read the thread jura apart from the first couple of posts. I must confess I too was surprised to think you’d fitted in a stint as an officer during your working career!
?

jura, I don't know how old you are or whether you were born during or after the war but would you mind explaining the 'we' part of your OP?

'We' is the UK, merlotgran. None of the OP is jura's words, as she explains. It was a post from another site.

Ok, this is not the place to post the facts of what the Swiss did in WW2. Where shall I post them Jura?

Or you could just look it up for yourself. It’s well documented. You sound as if you didn’t know about the internment camps or the turning away of refugees. Surely it was part of your history lessons?

If you don't read the post written not by me, but someone who served in the British Army for a long time - then there is no point discussing what you have not read, is there.

Eglantine, you talked about 'internment camps' and soldiers from the countries who fought alongside Great Britain being shot by the Swiss- and I would like evidence of that. And of course I know about those turned away- and I am prepared to discuss this. But on another thread, as this is about the post by that ex officer.

But perhaps you could look at a map of Europe- and see where Switzerland is- you might perhaps understand better why 'neutrality' as the only possible way and long before WW2.

All sorts of stuff from the war has been used, verbally and also paraphenalia, including planes, by BF and EDL in pro Brexit rallies. When they used the plane- it turned out it was actually a Czech plane with the Czech flag still visible, btw.

Perhaps using these ^ ^ at each side of quotations may help - not everyone is aware of jura's style of posting, MaizieD and could be puzzled, as were those who thought she was a Palestinian woman at one time.

Perhaps this may help:

www.historyisnowmagazine.com/blog/2016/2/14/was-switzerland-neutral-or-a-nazi-ally-in-world-war-two#.XKJgb3dFyUk=

I served proudly as a British Army officer for over 20 years
He must be at least in his 90s now then.

@MOnica
"I like GN. I am just getting bored stiff with these endless identical threads saying nothing useful or interesting."

... nothing useful nor interesting - to YOU! Others may feel differently.
But, nevertheless, here you are, bored stiff, but commenting just the same...
I doubt very much that I am "lucky" or part of a "select" minority. I've done some homework and put in place checks and balances to make sure we are as prepared as we can be for the variety of Brexit issues that might arise. My business supplies SAFETY equipment to various high-pressure systems - equipment that has to be traced according to its component materials, and documented to the last granule of material and its country of origin... anybody in our position would have done what we did - why wait until the last minute and then discover that you've fallen foul of something that could have been resolved earlier - do you not think many businesses are already doing that? I'm not part of an elite / lucky minority at all - everyone I know in the field is doing exactly the same!

vigdis are you new to Gransnet - if so, welcome

However, perhaps M0nica has a point - that the same tired arguments are rehashed over and over again, not just here, but in the msm and online.

In the meantime, no progress has been made.

Hi vigdis good to have you posting. Whether new or not, your views are very interesting (in my opinion). You have a different skill set to any of us and so of course your experience is pertinent to your business.

Actually I find it interesting to learn how businesses are preparing for Brexit as most of us here are retired and don’t have first hand knowledge!

Hi Urmstongran
Yes, I am new - thanks for the welcome. I did in fact respond to a comment you made on another thread - can't remember the title of it... but the comment struck me as interesting because you sounded profoundly disappointed and fed up with the current shenanigans of the government over Brexit. Basically, you said there was no one you'd actually want to vote for!
I am a Remainer, but with considerable 'sympathy' for the Leave vote - my partner is a Leaver; we have interesting discussions but manage not to get angry with each other because we often see eye to eye.
I am also retired but my partner and I run this small consultancy business because it helps boost our inadequate pensions. We can only do this because he has 40 years experience in his field. He is partly disabled, but can sit at the computer and use his brain. It has been a worry with Brexit but rather than sit back and 'wait and see' we've done what we can to make sure things run smoothly.
If I'm not mistaken, there's a place in - near Urmston with the lovely name of 'Dumplington',,, I'm guessing you're from Urmston...
Anyway, thanks for the comment.

@Jalima1108

Hi, yes, I'm new. Thanks for the welcome!

MOnica does have a point, true - but (there's always a 'but') why not pass over the tired arguments - or even introduce another aspect that lifts the conversation out of the doldrums?
Brexit occupies people's minds, and I think sometimes people just like to get things off their chest - even if the observations have been made over and over. Others can just let it go... I don't think there's a right or wrong way to comment, but you certainly can avoid the subject if it's too tedious!

Is this a lesson in UK history from a distance learning uni in Switzerland because I think.it should be shut down.
I thought that business are not allowed to advertise unless approved by GNHQ.

It was perfectly obvious the post was not written by me, and I explained this in a second post 20 minutes later.

Eglantine, I really do have to insist here for a reply:

'Eglantine 'I still object to Jura posting that list when some of the people she listed were shot down and killed by the Swiss or died in their internment camps.'

Please. Or are you confused between Switzerland and Austria?

It was perfectly obvious the post was not written by me
I am sure many longstanding Gransnetters would realise, jura2, but newcomers could have taken the OP at face value.

Which is why I made it clear in my second post, 20 minutes later, when I returned from feeding the neighbour's cat.

Just one last point: the ghastly MP Mark Francoise has been recorded standing on a beach blustering about his Father having been part of the DD Landings, and having fought off the Germans once, we should do it again. So, even in that high moral ground of the HoC they can scrape the barrel. Disgusting and disrespectful behaviour, but sadly all too typical of the man.

Quote: from Daily Mail, a Pro-Brexit paper who consider he has gone too far::

^Tory Brexiteer Mark Francois today launched an extraordinary attack on the German head of Airbus for threatening to pull the firm out of the UK.

Mr Francois accused Tom Enders of 'Teutonic arrogance' for warning about the consequences of a no-deal Brexit.

And invoking his father Reginald's part in the D-Day landings, the MP said: 'He never submitted to bullying by any German. Neither will his son.'

Mr Francois' father Reginald was an engineer who served in the Royal Navy during the Second World War, and a minesweeper on D-Day.

And to be fair jura, one would normally quote the source if you've copied and pasted from somewhere else, so that its immediately apparent that its from someone else. I'm a long time poster but, to be honest, it wasn't immediately obvious that they weren't your words. A newer poster wouldn't have picked up on that at all I don't think. Oh well.....