The embarrassment of the Tories

Mycatisahacker, Communism worked pretty well in Cuba despite constant and continuing American interference. In fact, Capitalist interference, appealing to the worst of human nature (self interest), has acted to inhibit Communist countries wherever an attempt has been made to establish an alternative system to Capitalism. I believe there are many East Germans who now reminisce about life before the fall of the Wall.

Democracy appears to offer stable government but in a two party system, which we have, it allows one party to rule for long periods of time and it leaves large swathes of the population without a voice because their votes are useless in an unbalanced constituency. Where a long standing government is right wing, policies tend to be brought in which devalue worker's rights and harm the environment and infrastructure in favour of shareholders, property owners and bankers.

I do think you are all mean to paddyann whose views on Scottish independence are totally valid and the Scots place a value on health, welfare and community which is worth preserving. Putting my tin hat on now.....

"Where in the world has Marxism actually worked?"

Where in the world do you think it hasn't Mycatisahacker. That might give us some insight into what you think Marxism is.

Nothing works better than democracy for all its flaws.

It was really easy to see just how muddled you are and where this was going Mycatisahacker. Marxism is a form of democracy; in fact it is often referred to Democratic Marxism simply because people like you and, by the look of things Day6 don't know one "ism" from another ism but find it easier to attempt to slur someone's character rather than actually showing some knowledge and actually debating facts.

Put the question the other way.

Why is it so difficult to make Marxism work in practice?

Those condemning Marxism might like to take a good hard look at capitalism what it has done and how it is failing. Basically it has worked on the assumpton that consuming and aquiring are the natural activities of man and that this can continue to grow indefinitely. Unfortunately we now find ourselves with a shrinking economy where for the first time the next generation will be worse off than their parents and grandparents, where the natural resources of our planet are threatened and where we will need to restrict consumption in order to protect the future. In other words we will not be able to contiinue to be a capitalist society, we will need to find another way.

I think you would have to start that off M0nica

Or you could ask, how has capitalism managed to hoodwink so many into believing it is the answer to a sustainable society which offers equal access to education, work and social mobility.

Part of the answer might be who owns what, from the means of production as the Marxists would have called it to the land in the UK and to wealth. I believe that the top 5th of the UK population have 40% of the wealth while the bottom 5th have only 8%.

notentirelyallhere
Have you been to Cuba? It's all very Swish and up market in the hotels and excursions where the tour company take you but go off on your own and it's a very different picture.
I suggest you visit some eastern block countries and see what left wing governments ( think communism) have done for workers rights and the environment.
Word of warning if you do: don't sit behind their wonderful diesel buses.

Oh dear I don’t think I am the muddled one.

Live it

go leave Britain and live it.

Let us know how wonderful it is

I think Cuba is a delight, and to suggest that the difference between the swish up market touristy areas and where ordinary folk live is as a result of the economic system is incorrect. You can do exactly the same exercise in more or less every country in the world. Take the richest country USA look at the swish hotels etc then go to the poor areas . Compare it to Cuba then decide if there is any real distinction, you might even decide that those folk in Cuba are better off. You would certainly decide that their health is better.

With regard to the former Eastern Block countries. All workers have the same minimum rights of all sorts throughout the EU. I think this should be very obvious given the agony that the U.K. is going through at the moment, and the worry that these rights will be diluted.

Do you live in Cuba???? Have you moved??

Do tell!

????no.

Mycatisahacker
Unfortunately many on GN haven't.

Have you lived in Cuba, then, petra?

Bloody hilarious

Send pics and info! Educate us please we are eager to see this wonderful utopia

mycat are you trying to be sarcastic. Is it directed at me? You might like to know that I never respond to that sort of post. So you are wasting your time I’m afraid.

Perhaps you would like to get back to sensible discussion.

I can direct you to holiday information if you wish, but I suspect that is not what you are actually about.

No obviously not you white

Others. Bless them.

Btw I never try to be sarcastic I am

MOnica

practicality gets in the way of dreams.

Or the people in charge always get corrupted by power.

Muddled or not.

mycat I apologise to have confused the issue

No don’t apologise

Totally ok

petra aren't you still going down the road trying, oh so hard, to say "if I can I will slur the character of this man and I will find anyway to do it. I will even suggest he will turn the UK into Cuba"?

So he looks at life from a Marxist point of view. We seem to have agreed - no one contradicted me - that this means he believes in a more egalitarian society; he believes in social democracy; and he sees crises that our type of capitalism has wreaked on our society over the last few centuries moving at an every faster pace. But he is a member of the Labour Party - a democratic socialist. The Labour Party have never shown any intention of turning us into Cuba. So what does your little homily about the island prove? Absolutely nothing.

On the other hand I can agree with notentirelyallhere. How about us looking at what the type of capitalism we have had inflicted on us is doing. An article in this weeks Economist - hardly a left-wing pamphlet inciting sedition - is an article headed "Return to Downton Abbey".

It describes how we have come full circle since the time before the wars when how you did in life depended on what you inherited and not what you earned. It depended who you were born to and not on your hard work, skill or ability. The wars were great levelers but the rate of increase in wealth is taking on pre war proportions. For every £100 Britons earn in wages they receive, on average £17 in gifts and bequests and this is at a time when tax is at historically low standards so the churn that keeps an economy going - or certainly one under the most recent style of capitalism - is slowing. The article says that " Inheritance has not played such a big a role in the economy since the 1930s.

This inheritance boom is fueling a sense of unfairness. We now even have a Committee on Intergenerational Fairness - even the government has recognised there is unfairness; it's just got the reasoning wrong. It is not an unfairness between the generations, it is unfairness between those old fashioned worlds of wealth and want.

When you worry about todays Labour Party and it's leader with sympathy for the Marxist viewpoint, just look at how many seemingly well-off people it and he attract and ask yourself why that should be. According to the Economist article "one in 20 British people receives an inheritance worth more than ten years of their net earnings." But those who will never receive this parental largess are left seeing that however well they do there is an unfair divide between them and the children of wealthy parents. With an income only from employment those who might once have found a natural home with the Tories are increasingly feeling as if they belong to the excluded few.