The embarrassment of the Tories

Earlier I didn't know how I felt about the leak. I have given it thought. My conclusion is that it is wrong to leak from a security committee. We need trust so that other counties will give us information: this could destroy that trust.

However, I believe Mrs May's need for control played a part in this. She tried to hide a political decision behind the security screen and must take a share of the blame.

My upbringing was one of '50s and '60s poverty
Under a system established by a socialist government- "From the cradle to the grave"
It amazes me how many older people don't recognise the benfits they received when they were younger or how socialism changed this country. And their refusal to allow younger people the benefits they experienced is disgusting.
"From each according to his ability to each according to his need" isn't a bad philosophy. "Grab as much as you can and b*** the rest" is

I see you’re still at it Lily65 with your spiteful comments x

“petra, you crack me up, in your camper van, all bought and paid for,motoring round the cheapo places and waving your Union Jack.”

You had a pop at me only a few days ago (but it was nice you apologised when I replied). Do try harder not to be so personal. It really does say more about you!

Urm kettle calling pan or what?

It amazes me how many older people don't recognise the benfits they received when they were younger or how socialism changed this country.

I think most of us are old enough to appreciate the history of the welfare state in the UK Trisher and the way it changed the country.

However, that model, one that worked in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s became unstable and abused in later decades. I am a fan of the welfare state and of our helping the frail, sick, elderly and giving the young a good start. We need to hang on to the principles and the NHS. I would fight for that, no matter which party has power.

It may have been conceived by Labour but the Labour Party of the 1940s bears no resemblance whatsoever to the Labour Party of today.

The Labour Party seems confused about the people it now serves. It tends to ignore working class people in Midlands and Northern towns and cities. Ask them.

Labour cannot keep harping on about past glories. The shape of Labour today would have past politicians and Labour voters like my Dad spinning in their graves.

Day6 I don't know where you live but I'm in a Northern town where Labour is certainly still regarded as the working class party. So I can walk around my city and see young people demonstrating about climate change, about the rise of the right wing and demanding socialist policies. I know the history of the Labour party and I know it is closer today to the ideals that underpinned it in the 1940s than it has been for the last 30 years.
I also appreciate the benefits that I gained from a socialist government and the social mobility that resulted from those policies and I would seek to pass the same benefits on to my children and grandchildren.
This idea of it won't work is just an excuse for those who know they have lost all credibility and embraced right wing ideas.

i think Keri Hardy would be turning in his grave to see the alienation of British Jews from this present momentum racist rabble.

It’s not a philosophy I want to pass down to my children and grandchildren.

I hope for better things and hope labour manages to shake off these vile momentum monsters.

My great-grandfather knew Keir Hardy and was a radical activist. I am quite sure about the way he would have viewed the awful state of British politics today.

Mycatisahacker not all Jews (British or not) are alienated from Momentum. Would you like to post any evidence you have of their racism. Or are you as usual on these threads just regurgitating the media opinion.

This idea of it won't work is just an excuse for those who know they have lost all credibility and embraced right wing ideas.

Ha ha ha - what a sneering assumption from a left winger!

Left = good, Right = bad.

Sorry, but we have moved on. The left and Labour has to keep banging on about a division, in that extreme wealth and extreme poverty are the two norms.

Like I said earlier, the Left needs everyone to think they are oppressed by the rich, which is a total nonsense. And everyone on the right is rich. Again, a nonsense.

It's a crock - isn't it, but Labour needs to keep us thinking we are all nasty people if we do not vote for them.

In truth, Labour needs there to be a poor, so that they can paint anyone not on their uppers with an 'I'm alright Jack' mentality!

The irony is that Labour now attracts the liberal elite, the middle classes, the Islington set - rich people who are very much of the Not In My Back Yard mentality!

It's trendy to pretend you care and support a Marxist party which encourages a 'them and us' mentality. Students lap it up, as we've seen, as do the likes of young capitalists at Glastonbury, cheering a Marxist anti-semitic millionaire and a capitalist millionaire land-owner! You couldn't make it up.

Without division, Labour is doomed.

They need us to think we are oppressed and they are saviours. Most people to the right of labours Marxism are caring and concerned individuals.

Day 6 look at the statistics on poverty, on the underfunding of schools, on the waiting lists in the NHS and then explain to me how the right wing are caring and considerate and how well the poor, the disabled and women children have done under the caring Conservatives

whodunnit

Who else was there? Or - who knew about the reports and the research that had been done?
Whilst I would not wish to defend any politician (particularly at the moment) it may not have been one of the Ministers at the meeting.
Who else was there, who else had access to the information?

#MissMarple

The others were civil servants, military and security advisors with very high security clearance. I think the politicians are less trustworthy than any of these public servants.

This should not be glossed over. The guilty party should be identified, sacked and prosecuted.

So, how would hard left Labour solve these problems *Trisher?

Throw money at them and claim to 'care' whilst bleeding workers dry via their taxes?

We all know sums budgeting is not something Labour does well. I doubt very much that we'd see huge welfare changes under Corbyn because the funds aren't there. I suppose he could do away with our armed forces - that would save his chancellor some money.

In my lifetime not one government has eradicated poverty. Don't tell me Corbyn and co can do it.

Poverty and hardship is not the norm in this country, although we appreciate it exists. Everyone just getting by will have to cough up for him to eradicate poverty. Marxism in action - except, it doesn't work.

Labour (supported by the middle classes now) bangs that drum because it is the only one it can bang to remain viable. (That - and remaining in the EU and supporting open borders.) It is becoming more and more apparent.

This should not be glossed over. The guilty party should be identified, sacked and prosecuted.
I agree.
But pointing fingers without proof is not helpful.

I think the politicians are less trustworthy than any of these public servants.
In the other case mentioned on here from many years ago, it was a public servant who was guilty, not a politician, albeit for the best of motives as far as she was concerned.

Was Edward Snowden a politician?

This serious leak should be thoroughly investigated. It is not so much about the substance of the leak but about the fact that it happened - a leak from the National Security Council is, as far as I know, unprecedented.

trisher

Yes you are right it’s all a far right plot she British Jews are fine with labour

Honestly it’s just sad you can’t accept facts

There was also Clive Ponting (sp) also a civil servant but neither of those leaks were from the NSC - that’s the real issue here

Oh, yes, I forgot about him, didn't Margaret Thatcher stick up for him and tell them not to be too hard on him?

But, presumably, all had signed the OSA.

He was found not guilty although he was as guilty as sin. Yes leaking is only a criminal offence under the OSA. But again not the issue

When have I ever been nasty maryeliza?

Hells teeth, somebody with several properties in a former communist state and purporting to travel about in a camper van and hates the EU.!!

Oh take a recommend .

A right wing plot ?

7th April The Jewish Lsbour Movement passed a motion ofno confidence in Corbyn and described him as unfit to run the country ,they also voted for - the party is
Institutionally anti semetic , passed unanimously

Before their meeting Shami Chakrabarti made an appeal,

‘ stay in the labour movement to tackle racism together ,
don’t make it sbout Jeremy Corbyn because he is only one person and he won’t be leader forever