Gransnet forums

News & politics

The embarrassment of the Tories

(347 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Fri 26-Apr-19 08:10:54

“It is said that those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad”
This is a quote in a newspaper editorial, which I thought extremely apt.
The editorial is headed
“Britain is being ruled by a party that has lost its political bearings”
Goes on to outline the reckless ill discipline so evident in the government, and in particular the leak over the Huawei decision, which defied two of the fundamental rules of British government -

Collective responsibility and official secrecy.

We can rely on neither of those concepts with this dreadful government.

If a government fails in such fundamentals it has failed completely.

Callistemon Wed 01-May-19 20:14:57

The other question is - is whoever it was right?
Should some things be leaked in the public interest?

Whitewavemark2 Wed 01-May-19 20:21:35

callistom whichever way you look at it. It was criminal.

Now as far as the public interest is concerned, this decision would have come out in the normal way.

You do not leak evidence given by the NSC, particularly if you are the Defence Secretary??

Whitewavemark2 Wed 01-May-19 20:23:03

I’m not clear that people understand the seriousness of this.

eazybee Wed 01-May-19 20:30:26

Gavin Williamson was sacked because he refused to resign; Mrs. May's reason for sacking him was :
'compelling evidence suggesting your responsibility for the unauthorised disclosure. No other credible version of events to explain this leak has been identified.' (my italics).
The investigation was conducted by Mark Sedwill, Cabinet Secretary and another close civil service ally of Mrs. May, and apparently at loggerheads with Williamson over the defence budget, so therefore not an independent investigation.
In his letter of reply Gavin Williamson writes:
'I am sorry that you feel recent links from the National Security Council originated in my department. I emphatically believe this was not the case. I strenuously deny that I was in any way involved in this leak and I am confident that a thorough and formal inquiry would have vindicated my position.'
If he is lying then he deserves to be punished, but this letter is carefully worded and has the ring of truth. Of Gavin Williamson and Theresa May, I would not, to my despair, trust Theresa May an inch.

lemongrove Wed 01-May-19 20:38:13

I think we may never know Eazybee but very wrong if
Williamson was innocent of this, as it will ruin his career.
It can’t have been done ( the decision to sack him) lightly though.
It doesn’t sound like an independent investigation does it?
The police should have carried it out IMHO.

Grandad1943 Wed 01-May-19 20:39:11

IF Williamson is the person who gave out the leak to the Telegraph, then this man deserves to have "the book thrown at him."

He was the Defence Secretary who is the highest person in the country with the responsibility for the security of this nation and its personnel in Britains armed forces.

The Committee the leak came from is also the highest joint political/military body in the UK for deciding day to day security strategy for everyone living in this country.

In the above, what Williamson has done (if the reported facts are correct) is to leak information not because he feels that the nation needs to know something which could impact on everyone's security, but to leak security information purely to benefit his own political future.

Just how low can the Cabinet members of this government and Tory party in general sink. Surely this matter has brought them to absolute rock bottom.

maryeliza54 Wed 01-May-19 20:42:03

In cases involving the OSA, the public interest is not a defence

Whitewavemark2 Wed 01-May-19 20:44:10

Actually giving it some thought, and realising how useless May is , it won’t be long before he is entirely exonerated.

I also heard that Chris Grayling tried to leak, but dialled the wrong number and ordered £50000000 worth of ferries instead. (With thanks to Adonis)

Whitewavemark2 Wed 01-May-19 20:46:00

Nick Bowles tweeted that most Tory mps assumed it was Williamson, as he has form with regard to leaks.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 01-May-19 21:04:29

Of course if he is innocent and wasn’t the leaker, one would expect the DT to do the honourable thing and say so. They can do so without revealing the actual source.

Mycatisahacker Wed 01-May-19 21:13:35

Op love your grayling comment grin

It’s serious! I hope it’s jot just civil servants who get prosecuted!!!!

He should have resigned and said why leaking from the security committee is disgraceful.

If he as innocent he would be on every TV channel and radio and saying so.

He’s not is he

GrannyGravy13 Wed 01-May-19 21:18:11

He done wrong by leaking but..........with Huweis (apologies for spelling?) track record and the fact that USA, Australia, New Zealand to name a few have banned this company why are our government considering giving them the 5G contracts?

Whitewavemark2 Wed 01-May-19 21:21:35

gg13 you are right. It sounds like another monumental misjudgement. Other countries are now raising the alarm since they heard what Mays intention is.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 01-May-19 21:31:01

Private Pike

pbs.twimg.com/media/D5giBrvWwAEniHD?format=jpg&name=small

GracesGranMK3 Wed 01-May-19 22:08:50

It seems unjust. He should be prosecuted in order to have a chance to prove his innocence or the government prove his guilt. This does not seem to be right.

Mycatisahacker Wed 01-May-19 22:19:47

Yes but he should have leaked he should have resigned and gone public about his worries!

Leaking and trying to keep
Your job is the equivalent of a poison pen letter!! Not good.

He should be prosecuted of course.

Mycatisahacker Wed 01-May-19 22:22:10

Surely the police will now be involved? If he’s innocent he would insist they be

Callistemon Wed 01-May-19 22:37:06

callistom whichever way you look at it. It was criminal.
Yes, I do know
I was just asking the question.

He is still protesting his innocence

Callistemon Wed 01-May-19 22:41:50

Whitewavemark2
I'm laughing about your Grayling comment (although it's not a laughing matter!)

The police should be called in; perhaps if there is a mistake or Williamson is a scape-goat, then the absolute truth will come out.

In cases involving the OSA, the public interest is not a defence
I know that too, as was shown when others were sent to prison in previous cases.

crystaltipps Thu 02-May-19 05:30:09

This is a new low for the British state and the British people. The man who is in charge of this keeping this country safe leaking official secrets to the press for his own ambition, only to call the Prime Minister a liar when he was sacked. He was always known to be more ambitious than competent. Why has the whip not been withdrawn from him?

Whitewavemark2 Thu 02-May-19 06:58:02

Breaking news

Several bookmakers file for bankruptcy, as Chris Grayling outlasts Gavin Williamson.

Firecracker123 Thu 02-May-19 07:00:57

What happened to innocent before proven guilty. If anyone should be sacked it should be Mrs May for being a perpetual liar.

crystaltipps Thu 02-May-19 07:16:25

Even the Daily Heil has got a double page spread on what an incompetent buffoon Williamson is, his history of leaks, and shows how clueless May has been in appointing numpties like Williamson and Grayling.

Mycatisahacker Thu 02-May-19 07:23:17

Whitewatermark grin

I agree how low have we sunk. No discipline no loyalty and no sense of responsibility.

I think letting the Chinese In is utterly stupid but there are honourable ways of doing things.

Urmstongran Thu 02-May-19 07:47:11

I would think it a badge of honour to be sacked from this disgrace of a government.

The idea of being a patriot wishing to protect the country from potential enemies is beyond the pale apparently