Playing with fire

It's known as a corrective slap-----------not abuse !!

I have 2 children. Both entirely different characters. Neither of us ever used any form of physical punishment. Both have grown up to be gentle and empathetic people. My daughter has two boys. Never used physical punishment. Boys are gentle and empathetic. Son has no children.

They are all law abiding and responsible.

Children should NEVER be slapped. There is a good reason why the law prevents physical violence or punishment. Why on earth should this not apply to the most vulnerable in our society?

People who do have lost it in my opinion. The law should apply equally to ALL members of society. The fact that it doesn’t is almost certainly a throwback to when the male in the family “owned” the other members. He could use violence as he saw fit. Adult females eventually found a voice and got that changed. Children have never had the same voice.

Can't agree with smacking children, what message does it send ? and sadly some parents just don't know when to stop, where do you draw the line ? children need good guidance but not by physical violence because lets face it IT IS

I know I won't be popular on this subject and I don't have all the answers, all I can say is that children are precious and need protection as they can't speak for themselves.
That's all ladies thank you for reading

lizzie ?

I was in school in the 70s and 80s, I remember kids being caned or sent to special schools. There was also a borstal near me.

I only hit my daughter once and she hit me back a lot harder (teenager not little child)

EllanVannin your "corrective slap" is found in many homes today. The children subjected to them are often unable to judge when they will get one. If mum has a hangover it might be because they are being too noisy. it might be because they demanded some food, it might be because they are climbing out of a window. They simply don't know. To imagine that all parents are thinking carefully before they hit a child is ridiculous, but by preaching about how hitting children does no harm you are actively supporting this behaviour.
Teaching that you do not hit those smaller or weaker than you is a much better solution.

I wasn't smacked as a child but was constantly threatened with being sent away, that "Mummy wouldn't love me any more", and with abandonment - for any minor misdemeanour, eg. not eating all my sprouts.

Guess how much damage that did!! There are worse things than a light smack, but of course it is all relative.

By the way, I never smacked my own children..... but never in a million years did I threaten them with the horrible things my parents said to me.

Another empty headed idiot here. Both DSs were smacked occasionally., as was I when young. The arguments on this thread make the case better than I could have done.

Just a thought, could the current generation be the first in history to be brought up with no smacking?

It will be interesting to see how they all turn out, if so.

Taking my name in vain Breeze?!!

We need to remember there have always been the children and teens who would now be classed as anti-social it's not a new phenomenon, the teddy boys, mods & rockers, punks; they were all there on the edges of the way normal young people of their times were expected to behave.

On these pages there are so many letters about the stresses that parents are under now. Let's not forget that for a huge amount of them, the amount of time they get to spend with their children has shrunk to a rushed getting up & out of the house, a couple of hours in the evenings when parent and child are tired and the weekends. It's no good harking back to the days when we had our children, this is their reality now and it's no wonder that parents want this relatively short amount of time to be enjoyable family time. Unfortunately we also know that effective parenting takes time and that's one of the things they are most short of now.

There is no one way of parenting children; what works for one child may not keep working or work for another. An experienced mum told me half a lifetime ago that there are as many ways of bringing up children as there are families, I have since revised this and substitute 'as there are children', for surely if you bring up a subsequent child the same way as your first one, you clearly haven't learnt any lessons as a parent along the way!

I am in the 'anti-smacking' brigade as I always feel a smack from an adult signifies a loss of control. Most parents smack under pressure, driven to the end of their patience by the behaviour of their child and for most that is their cut off point. But some don't have that 'okay, enough now' barrier. This is why for some parents it can lead to more frequent or harder smacking/hitting/beatings.

What are we starting if we tell children that smacking is okay? Transpose "I just had to smack you because of what you did, but I still love you." to an adult relationship and how does it sound? I'm sure there are adults on GN with experience of that response who are, or have been in, what we now correctly identify as abusive relationships. What changed our thinking there? How did we progress from the thought that keeping the woman in line by giving her a quick 'smack' is now unacceptable?

I know children are not adults, treating them as though they are, sitting them down and 'explaining' doesn't work until they are rational enough to understand. There are other ways to set limits but they do take time and patience and need to be learnt, unfortunately no-one needs to learn how to smack.

A smack may solve a behaviour problem temporarily but in a lot of cases it's only like putting a sticking plaster over a splinter, the cause will still fester away and need to be dealt with later.

I had a son, one of twins who used to go flat on the floor and hold his breath when having a tantrum. After he went
frighteningly blue a couple of times I took him to the Dr. Remedy.......a sharp slap on the leg to make him gasp. Did it in a carpet shop once and was threatened with the police by a bystander who had been standing there tutting.

Sheltered lives,Trisher ? Where did you get that from ?

We Gners brought our children up a jolly sight better than they're brought ( dragged-up ) today ! And under less privileges than this present century. There was nothing sheltered about life in the early 60's where there were lots of working women, myself included who went back to nursing to supplement the income. Children were taught to behave and did so without the need for the proverbial belt hanging from the back door.

It was all about education pre-school and you made time for the children.
How many mothers do you see now with mobiles clamped to their hands while children run amok ?? Lord knows how much of their time is ever spent seeing to the children. It is THOSE parents who are abusive if/when a child happens to interrupt a text/conversation who gets whacked !!
It's todays parents who are violent for all the wrong reasons as described above.

We " sheltered parents " aren't stupid and see all this going on which is a far-cry from the loving parents that we were/are !

Trisher & Lizzie, great posts.

The point is that home for some children is a place where violence is commonplace EllanVannin and all your posturing about what you have seen is irrelevant There were in the 60s and there still are parents who hit their children indiscriminately. Women now can (and hopefully do) leave a partner who hits them, but for many chidren that opportunity will not come until they are teenagers, by which time violence and hitting will be an acceptable part of their lives. Your approval of smacking gives the actions of these parents an acceptability which would not be there if smacking was banned. Of course it's abuse to whack a child who interrupts a conversation but you approve of smacking so how can you complain?

In an atmosphere of 'no smacking' I would not dream of smacking a child.

But I will say this. I grew up in an era where a quick smack was occasionally administered when a child or a situation went too far and I know of no single case where lasting damage was done.

Additionally, how comes it, in this no smacking era that children are growing up depressed, anxious and some knowing few boundaries?

I think there is a distinct difference between an abusive parent using violence (either physical or verbal) to satisfy some desire in themselves and a loving parent offering a quick smack in the interests of the child, for example, if they stray near a road or put fingers or objects into sockets when warned not to.

Many acts of discipline can involve time, effort and explanations so that a physical punishment is averted. But if a child's hand strays near a boiling kettle flex to pull it, no time is given to avert disaster and I would never condemn a parent for administering a quick tap to save the situation.

Polemical solutions are rarely suitable to solve nuanced problems. The all or nothing approach we as a society seem to adopt with nearly all problems today seems irrational and immature to me.

Trisher---I would never hit a child if I was on the phone or for any other reason other than if it sheer defiance and determination in a child who knew there was danger involved.

Twisting what I've said doesn't cut any ice with me either !!

BTW, I didn't see in the 60's what I see now, the curse of the mobile phone with its messages of hatred and verbal abuse !

Ever since the 'no smacking' came into force, am I the only one to have noticed just how many badly behaved children there are around these days? They are everywhere - in shops, cafes, restaurants - children completely out of their parents' control.

A very occasional quick slap on the back of the legs does no psychological harm whatsoever to a child.

How can non-violence be taught to children,or anyone, if they are subjected to violence?

I occasionally smacked my 2 older children and suspect it was more for my benefit than theirs. After a 16 year gap I had child 3 and never slapped her. I am now totally against any form of physical chastisement.

One or two slaps within the family home doesn't equate to a violent home so stop exaggerating.

JenniferEccles, no, you're not the only one who has noticed this bad behaviour since the " abolition " of smacking---------from interfering busybodies !

Mycatisahacker just wondering if you (or any other GNer) have cat or indeed any pet that you would hit (smack) if it had done something that you considered to be bad behaviour or naughty?

I simply can’t understand how on Earth it gets to the state where only a slap will stop a child.
How inadequate are the parents who can’t control the situation to that extent? Parenting isn’t just about reacting it is as much about foreseeing and preventing.

My daughter (I can hear myself?) only have to say Um in a very determined way and both the boys would know to stop.
When they were tiny different tactics were used that the child understood.

To say that as a result of no physical violence children are out of control is beyond ridiculous.

My children were always known and commented on for their good behaviour. One of the grandsons in particular was chosen as a mentor at school.

Do not generalise. When seeing a child behaving badly it is usually down to poor parenting, but slapping is not the answer. You do not own that child to do with as you wish. You have a responsibility to rear an adult that make good, honest citizens.

I agree with one part of your post MagicWand that different children require different levels of discipline.

I was was brought up 10 years after my 2 elder sisters during which time it was very normal to give kids a clump if they misbehaved. My 2 elder sisters never, ever were smacked by my father. I got quite a few. But I was a very naughty child and I thank him now for that discipline as I could write a book of all my exploits at that age.

Regarding my own 3 boys; I rarely had to smack the middle one as he was very placid and I had to 'park' him in the middle of the other two when we went out in the car or they would fight. The eldest was an absolute nightmare who would've killed himself if I hadn't given him an occasional short sharp shock to stop him from riding his bike down a set of concrete steps and so on.

EllenVallin I completely agree with all your points. I take umbrage at those who try to imply you are a child abusing monster because you gave your child a 'measured' (you shouldn't slap your kids if you are in a temper) smack for bad behaviour. And it saves hours of boredom on the naughty step.

I have no idea why some smug people have reared little darlings who required nothing more than a ‘Sweetie. Sit there and let’s discuss why you just bit Tarquin’ when the rest of us who live in the ‘real’ world (no, not dragged up in violent poverty) believe an occasional smack is acceptable.

Maybe it’s all the mung beans. They haven’t got the energy to do anything naughty.

Have we actually had maryeliza's training method satisfactorily explained? We would all be very interested. .