Playing with fire

Exactly mycat, which is why I’m puzzled that several posts have demanded to
Know how to parent successfully without hitting

Phoebe wrote:
"I think it depends a lot on whether the slap is pre-meditated or a spur of the moment thing."
That's my view too. I don't believe that many parents have never lost their temper with their child. But we still love them. Most child rearing is 'spur of the moment'.
As for the possible new law in Wales -
I worked in childre's srvices from the 60s to the 90s. I remember at one time a new law came in, (maybe local?) where children could report their parents for hitting/smacking them. There were several families I knew where the child, always a teenager, reported the parent. Then the social services had to do something, and sometimes the child was removed.
Not always for the best.
So the consequence of the the parent being investigated by the police in the current situation is realistic.
What are the penalties?

iam64

I think they were venting at her perfect parenting



People get pissed off when patronised.,

Mycatisahacker But you can’t generalise for a whole population because a small minority of parents are violent abusers. Those parents should face the full force of the law and i have dealt with child abuse cases during my working life.
How would that equate with violence against women? Should we say it's OK for a man to hit his wife occasionally but not regularly?
EllanVannin No statistics just experiences.

Whenever I started in a new class at school the first thing mum did was go in and tell the teacher if I ever needed a smack then they had her permission, I only ever got the ruler once and that was because I didn’t get changed from PE quickly enough.
Two of my daughters thought certain classes a complete waste of time, not because they disliked the lessons just that some of the pupils were so unruly, shouting, throwing things, jumping on the desks and in a couple of cases jumping out the window, the teachers had no idea what to do with them so come gcse time no one in their class passed it as they were so far behind.
That isn’t just about controlling those pupils it’s also about letting the ones that want to learn be held back because of them

The worse story I ever heard was of the punishment of children fighting in the pavement. The school said that unless the parents were prepared to administer corporal punishment the children would be sent down and not take their exams. I was horrified.

Sorry - for 'pavement' read 'playground'.

llizzie2 about the same level of care as the two mums who took their sons round to the back of our school and proceeded to tell them to "fight it out". We had spent all day trying to get the two to find an amicable solution to their argument!
For some people violence is an acceptable part of their lives. I just don't want to be part of that.
As for the discussion about class control and hitting. I bet most of us can remember teachers who had little class control but who used violence. It doesn't follow that hitting gives better control. It needs a certain authority, caring staff and a good school-wide support system.

Just the sight of some teachers in my day were enough for us kids to make sure we pulled our weight. Apart from the PE teacher everyone else was " old " which immediately spelled authority/in charge. The old headmaster wore a cap and gown and floated around like a bat with his cloak flapping. A fatherly figure who was quietly spoken------it was his overall presence which was the deterrent.

Every lesson throughout that school you could have heard a pin drop during sessions and one class there was a cane in the corner which wasn't used when I was there.
There was never any class disturbance in the mid to late 50's , nor even in the school itself, kids back then had more sense than to talk in class let alone create the mayhem that we see and hear of now.

It all boils down to respect, and begins in the home !
It should never be left to any teacher to discipline a pupil and obviously if a pupil is being difficult then the easiest option is to send him/her home and this is what's happening today.
Teachers are there to teach not to try and control unruly pupils !
Nothing whatsoever to do with whether kids get told off or hit at home. Children don't like school-----FACT !

Being a nurse for most of my life I have seen horrendous abuse against children-----far worse than a smacked bottom !
One instance in particular where my faith in the child protection services was completely shattered. How they ever knew what they were doing at the time I'll never know to this day but it was the wrong move and sadly their sheer incompetence has been highlighted over the years with some of the worst child abuse/neglect the world ever saw----------and still " lessons haven't been learned " in tracking down those criminals who harm children either psychologically or physically. Shocking !!

I could write a book about the shortcomings of social services and child protection services.

The usual rant EllanVannin actually there are children who love school because it provides a stable and organised place where they know what will happen. That doesn't mean such children are easy to teach or that they always behave well. They are very disturbed when any unexpected change takes place and bring into school all the problems from a chaotic home background where they might or might not have been hit. They have more problems in secondary schools because they are so large and impersonal.
Next time you are out and about shopping look around at the teenagers who have been sent home because the school can't manage them. Do you really think they are better off hanging around shopping centres? Teachers know exclusion is a last resort and only use it when they are forced to.
What is the point of living in the past?

Because it’s much easier and physically safer for social workers to pursue middle class people who have smacked their child occasionally than it is to pursue violent antisocial monsters who perpetuate dreadful abuse.

tricher

You can’t really present an argument if you Haven't got statistics to back you up and you said you Havant Your experience is obviously your experience but it’s only anecdotal.

Ellsnvanin

As a fellow nurse of long standing I agree with you over SS. I too saw some dreadful neglect.

And in my experience the worst behaved children were defiantly not those who were physically emotionally or sexually abused at home. They were quiet and well behaved because they were scared.

We always worried about the quiet sad scared looking children. The ‘naughty’ones were usually from loving homes.

Excellent posts Ellenvanin and Mycatisahacker

I don't think I have ever met one person in my entire life who liked, let alone loved school.

SS would do well to concentrate on truly abused children. Better use of their time than persecuting parents who believe in an occasional smack.

Some people live in a bubble.

"SS would do well to concentrate on truly abused children. Better use of their time than persecuting parents who believe in an occasional smack."
Yes but the new law in Wales could force the Social Services and the police into that position. As with the teenagers reporting their parents in my earlier post.
So difficult to find that fine line between chastisement, or a temporary loss of temper, and actual abuse.

Mycatisahacker hit the nail on the head Fennel when she said it's easier to pursue good parents than confront the ones that really are hurting their children. This filters through to the police force. It's easier to sit in a lay by with a speed camera and prosecute someone doing 34 in a 30 mph limit than it is to confront a violent drug dealer.

It's a waste of resources to persecute decent parents. Sadly, there are children out there who need the authorities to focus on their safety.

Honestly - rants about social services, teachers and modern parents. How many of you have been out knocking on doors to investigate allegations, how many involved in joint police/social work investigations?
I'm off.

SS are not persecuting anybody. Indeed the horrendous cuts to services make it all the more likely that abuse will slip through the net. The middle class are safe! They can smack their children as much as they like. Social workers have far too big a caseload to deal with them.
Can anybody explain to me how telling parents it is illegal to smack your child will make any child safer? Abuse starts usually with a single smack as a punishment. The physical punishment then gets out of hand as some peope realise they actually enjoy doing it and keep on. Not everyone does this I know but there isn't a single abuse case that didn't start with someone using physical force to discipline a child.

Maybe because my " rants " are a true reflection of what goes on Trisha and let's face it there aren't many people who like the truth, spoken or otherwise !!

I try to avoid getting embroiled in personal criticisms but EV your truth has no fleeting resemblance to the truth as I see it.

All physical punishment teaches children is adults are more powerful. I was smacked a lot by my mother, never by my father) ( who do you think I was closer too?!) and vowed I would never smack my children and never have. All it taught me was it wasn’t safe to ever be angry.

I didn’t emotionally abuse my children either but taught them calm ways to behave and they have grown up as successful adults , my daughter doesn’t smack either, the other doesn’t have children but is very close to her nieces and “parents” them just as well.

You don’t have to repeat patterns you can be different

Thanks TwiceAsNice

Iam - I hope my posts don't give the impression that I'm blaming social workers. They have a thankless, difficult task and are often blamed when things go wrong.
Nor am I blaming teachers, and most parents do their best.
Another factor in this is that no parent wants to hear that the state can interfere in their child-rearing. Unless they ask for advice themselves.

Fennel, Most of us do our best, parents, nurses, teachers, social workers, police officers. We agree. Some posters claim all social workers fail, know nothing about child ptote

Sorry that posted on it’s own, never post from a phone. To add - some posters claim all social workers fail, know nothing about child protection. This is not true but who needs research evidence when rants serve the poster better than truth