The Labour Party

Agreed- and one more reason, and that is a big one- to oppose effectively and stop it being privatised into the hands of Trump and co. But it is a thirsty beast- and a million more so in the present times, with us living longer and with new and amazing, VERY expensive treatments available. It needs a very strong economy and services, and fair taxation with avoidanc - to sustain it.

Yes, 74 years ago. And who from 1979 to 1997 ?

fair taxation WITHOUT avoidance

Anniebach Quote [Yes, 74 years ago. And who from 1979 to 1997?] End Quote.

Why from 1979 Anniebach. Surely the political history and achievements of Britain should be judged at the very minimum from the end of the Second World War.

The United Kindom in 1945 had come through more than six years of war that had dramatically effected every person who had survived that war. This country at that time was witnessing food rationing, power cuts, a transport deficiency and was effectively bankrupt.

Despite all that the first post-war Clement Attlee government brought forward the National Health Service and Welfare State which he considered essential in demonstrating the nations thanks for all the population had sacrificed throughout those years of war.

In the opinion of many, the Labour government of 1945 under the leadership of Clement Attlee remains as the greatest peacetime government this country has ever possessed.

Great achievement in the face of great adversity.

name a successful labour government after Attlee until Blair .

Attlee on communism

Russian communism is the illegitimate child of Carl Marx
and Catherine the Great

Attlee was centre left

I love history- but can we come back to the here and now.
We are facing a massive crisis - and we need a strong opposition leader to deal with it. Corbyn isn't the one.

Exactly jura, going back 74 years is pointless

What are the dates of Conference? It is going to be a very very stormy time and show how divided the party is. But all a bit too late, too late.

22nd September- doesn't leave much time, does it?!?

So apart from personal dislike what qualities do you think Corbyn lacks that prevent him being a leader? He is a practiced and able orator. His public speeches are renowned. He has a great record in negotiating and discussion. He is honest. He learns quickly. Is it perhaps that he has not been 'sold' to the general public by the media? Personally I' rather have real qualities than a load of PR guff.

trisher- I have said again and again that I do NOT dislike JC. I've met him many times in the past, as part of CND, and he is a great actitivist. I agree with your last sentence totally.

trisher yes Corbyn is great at rallies, when he feels deeply about something he can let Rip. He is comfortable with an adoring crowd applauding every word.

But as a leader? Too weak, he is not honest,

Just seen a cartoon with JC holding a placard with 'Labour Party's position is clear' and the caption 'he just doesn't agree with it (with Keir Starmer looking glum)

Well Said trisher

Well I certainly see ' smoke and mirrors ' and deflection.

When all else fails shift the debate.

You should know all about that POGS I have yet to see any real reasons why Labour haven't been an effective opposition. But I await them with patience.

oh trisher- really? You have not seen JC sitting on that fence, for hours, days and nights, weeks, months, years

Is forcing the biggest defeat on a government in modern history and leading a vote of no confidence fence sitting? if you are speaking about him pursuing policies which are the party line then it's not just him on the fence is it?

As has been pointed out time and time again on this forum jura2, Jeremy Corbyn is supporting the lay membership drawn up policy of "a General Election as first priority."

The above was brought forward by last Septembers Labour Party Delegate Conference which is the primary policy-making body for the whole movement, and that applies in equality to even the leader of the Parliamentary Labour Party.

Tough for some when the rule of principle is placed in front of personal gain and whim by a number of MPs in the Labour Party.

The behaviour of Jeremy Corbyn over the last three years leads many of us to think that he is doing everything he can to ensure that brexit happens, against the wishes of the majority of Labour MPs, the majority of Labour Party members, and the majority of Labour voters.

A great explanation of how people have been conned and influenced by mainstream media
www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/facebook-comment-jeremy-corbyn-going-viral/31/05/?fbclid=IwAR3zNjqR-87YXqV_GztTstApQVqMODRYhRcNv8xWoEdKL-IYAeYK9zWj9aY

so, do you want to crash out with a No Deal? Because we just have weeks to avert it. This is a national emergency- and needs fast, effective, intelligent action- not just toeing the party line- especially as polls show a vast majority of members do not want the above.

There is NO signs currently that LP would win a GE, even in those dire circumstances- and that is due to JC.

I think leaders of all persuasions have had lots of negative headlines, trisher.

JC did enjoy some very positive headlines due to the adoration of the youth of the moment a couple of years ago.

But they've grown up now

And I agree with varian. JC is no fan of the EU which would go some way to explaining his reticence in shouting too loudly about Brexit.

However it also has to be mentioned that Labour constituencies did vote to leave the EU. 148 for leave, and 84 for remain. Nine regions voted to leave and three voted to remain in the EU referendum.

Maybe some have changed their minds but I wouldn't be too sure.

It is true that the majority of Labour constituencies voited leave three years ago, but , firstly that was a quirk of our undemocratic FPTP electoral system s that fact condradicted the votes of most Labour Party voters, and secondly, many minds have been changed since then.

people now realise their job is at risk, their workers's rights, their agriculture, that the NHS will not benefit and will indeed be at risk of being sold, and that we are so so desperate now that we are in no fit State to get a good deal from anyone, let alone Trump's USA - in short, that we are NOT going to get back control, and be vassals to Trump rather than full partners of the EU (and so much more). And young people will not make the same mistake again, and will get up and vote, massively.