Tory Leadership race

“Because there is no, fortunately in this country, majority for that kind of politics.”

Well, not in Dominic Grieve’s world ha! But his constituents think differently.

Regarding the points raised re the possibility of leaving the EU with NO DEAL can I ask a question.

The EU has stated that the Withdrawal Agreement is the best there can be , it will not be renegotiated.

I understand the sort of comments that follow that more or less are saying if anybody who says they will get a renegotiated deal they are at best being too hopeful at worst lying.

My question is this .

Why is Boris Johnson assumed to be an advocator of solely wanting a No Deal , not wanting to try any renegotiations with the EU?

Theresa May gave reassurances in her ' 10 Point Offer ' over the concerns Labour had been declaring as reasons why it voted against the Withdrawal Agreement such as Environmental Protection, Workers Rights, A guarantee of a Commons vote on whether the final deal should be subject to a confirmatory referendum etc.

The EU proclamation is applicable to the UK not to any political party.

Both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt voted ' FOR ' the Withdrawal Agreement and Labour did not so surely those who voted for the Withdrawal Agreement were more open to the UK having a deal with the EU than those such as the ERG and Labour who did not.

Well, not in Dominic Grieve’s world ha! But his constituents think differently

A concerted campaign by few hundred in a constituency of 75,000 voters?

I think a general election might be a test of that, Ug

Why is Boris Johnson assumed to be an advocator of solely wanting a No Deal , not wanting to try any renegotiations with the EU?

I think it depends on who is assuming that, POGS. Wishful thinkers I would say. As he is prone to changing his story from day to day I don't think it's safe to assume that anything he says is reliable.

Pogs in regard to your post @ 13:36 today (21/06/19) then Theresa May did offer the Labour Party guarantees on employee rights etc, but she was not prepared to write those guarantees into new legislation. Therefore, the Labour party could not accept Mays so-called "guarantees, and the negotiations broke down.

However, as has been stated on so many occasions on this forum, the Labour Party are not the party of Government in the United Kingdom at this time. That accolade is held by the Tory party and had all that parties MPs along with the paid for buttressing of the Northern Ireland Democratic Unionist Party been in support of Theresa May's withdrawal agreement, then that agreement would have been passed by the House of Commons, and Britain would now have left the European Union.

It is this Tory government that is solely responsible for the crisis that Britain now faces, with the Labour Party being only one the parties of opposition in our Parliament. Therefore, those opposition parties hold no overall responsibility for the current debacle, however much many on this forum try to place blame on them.

Grandad

' However, as has been stated on so many occasions on this forum, the Labour Party are not the party of Government in the United Kingdom at this time.'
-

I accept Labour are not the party of government but as the Opposition they know the numbers are not stacking up for the government and Parliament with the help of Bercow has the upper hand over the Government.
Labour are / were hell bent on getting a General Election and at one time said they had no problem with the Ireland Backstop but wanted guaranteed Environmental Protection, Workers Rights, wanted a Commons vote on whether the final deal should be subject to a confirmatory referendum, May was the one to not ' stick to red lines' and still Labour said they would vote it down because there could be another PM not her.

Had the Withdrawal Agreement gone before Parliament with May's 10 Point Offer accepted then she would probably still be the PM. It became pretty obvious Labour were still going flat out for a General Election even when they had gained what they had been calling for from Theresa May, which she did at the expense of her own position within her Party.

POGS, regarding your post @ 19:09 today (21/06//19), I believe we will have to disagree on whether Theresa Mays offers to the Labour Party and others really could be guaranteed as something which any incoming conservative Prime Minister would not endeavour to "tear up" as one of his/her first actions.

In regard to the Labour Party "going flat out for a General Election", then that is Labour Party policy as set out by its Annual Delegate Conference held in September last year.

In that, those who voted leave in the Labour Party heartlands of the North of England and elsewhere would have a further opportunity of voting for a candidate holding Leave views or a candidate who feels that Britain should remain within the European Union.

Supporters of other parties would have the same opportunity, and in those actions, this whole shambles would be finally settled.

Grandad

Politely I agree we will have to disagree.

POGS, I agree, we disagree. ???

Only 3.5 million Labour voters voted Leave, co-incidently the same number of Tory voters who voted Remain.

This country is no longer split along a left/right axis. many people have changed their opinions on brexit as more information has emerged and are now looking for clarity.

That may well mean, as it seemed in the EU elections, a choice between the Brexit party and the LibDems.

varian, Theresa May believed in calling the 2017 General Election that the main topic of the debate would be Brexit.

The result of that Election demonstrated that the debate had not centred entirely around Britain Leaving Europe when the Tory Party lost its majority in the House of Commons. Many traditional Labour voters in that parties hearlands returned to their traditions when such matters as the NHS, the housing crisis, the Gig Economy and Zero hours contracts were debated.

Similar I believe would happen should another General Election be called in the coming few weeks/months.

Varian, this is not a challenge, I ask this for clarification only as I agree much of what you write, but you say 3.5 million Labour voters voted Leave. How does anyone know that? Were we asked to indicate which party we supported? I don't remember.

The figure of 3.5 million people voting Labour in 2017 GE who voted leave in the referendum is the best estimate from a series of surveys by different research and polling organisations after the 2017 GE. These were collated by BBC Factcheck in response to Farage's claim that the number was 5 million which was found to be a lie.

www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-48039984?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQA#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s

I see now. Thank you for that. The BBC explanation makes it clear that it's an estimated figure somewhere between 3 and 4 million.

Seems odd seeing the photograph of Gisela Stuart in that article, as she played such a big role in the Referendum alongside Boris Johnson and now look where he is. Where did she go?

Seen this?

Day 1 of leadership race is going quite well

Police called to flat Johnson shares with his latest squeeze over a fracas early Friday morning.

Minister Mark Field suspended by his Prime Minister over his violent handling of a peaceful protester

Tory whips investigate abusive texts between Tory MPs

Tory MP thrown out by constituency over expenses scandal.

An investigation is to be launched after a Tory MP claimed she received abusive messages labelling her “a disgrace” following the latest Conservative leadership vote.

The messages were allegedly sent to Antoinette Sandbach MP in the aftermath of the more recent vote for the Tory leadership race, in which Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt were selected as the final two candidates to succeed Theresa May.

Ms Sandbach, the MP for Eddisbury, had supported International Development Secretary Rory Stewart in the leadership campaign before he was knocked out in the third parliamentary ballot.

She tweeted imgages of the messages that she claimed were sent to her by a male Conservative MP on Thursday night. Chief whip Julian Smith said he will investigate the incident.

inews.co.uk/news/politics/antoinette-sandbach-tory-leadership-election-rory-stewart-mp-disgrace-investigation/

There is a toxic atmosphere in the Conservative party with reasonable people being targetted and hounded by brextreemists

It is so reassuring that a toxic atmosphere could never pervadevthe Labour party, nor that Corbyn dissidents could ever be put up for deselection. We need a Labour government so that Corbyn, Abbott and white van Emily may restore some equilibrium.

Not everyone gets irony Impartial ?

Just because we have ghastly people in both main parties doesn’t make it ok does it? Surely all the more reason to be depressed- we’ll this lot are awful , but they aren’t as bad as that lot. All the more reason to criticise them both.

Both "main parties" are polling poorer figures than the Liberal Democrats. We do have a real choice if we want to vote to save the UK from a disastrous brexit.

Don't forget quiet, kindly and gentle McDonnell, Impartial

Impartialandeducated, many of us are despairing of both parties, Tory and Labour, and of the skullduggery, bullying and sheer nastiness. Don't assume that because some of us are criticising and worrying about the Tory leadership elections that we are satisfied with how the Labour party are conducting themselves. Far from it

You can’t excuse your support for one dreadful bunch by pointing to another dreadful bunch.

GillT57
Despair is the best description.