Tory Leadership race

lemongrove irony is often lost on GN!

I understand that the ERG have conceded that GATT 24 cannot be used in the event of a no deal.

One more thing Bozo has got wrong. People are placing all their hopes on this idiot to get us out of Brexit. Paper bag springs to mind.

It will all end in tears. Let us know what the benefits of Brexit are again Boris? Where’s a big red bus when you need it?

Hunt favours a deal and an extension.

Hasn't the EU (in fairness) said "No more" in terms of time and conditions? So he'll get nowhere fast as a student of the Theresa May school of kicking a tin can down the road.

If I were trying to solve this stalemate I'd leave with No Deal, and on amicable terms, and THEN work out how the EU will trade with us, and we with them. I think we could go forward quite happily in this way and (as a bonus) life could begin again without the Brexit cloud hanging over us.

The uncertainty needs to be ended. Only politicians on all sides of the house can make this happen. The political point scoring has to stop. Politicians are not helping themselves in terms of their careers either. People remember.

I think you are rather over optimistic if you think leaving with no deal will lift the Brexit cloud. The political and economic fallout will run and run, plus interminable negotiations will go on for years, the divisions will be amplified, and unless tangible benefits are immediate, the outcry and opposition will continue.

It became pretty obvious Labour were still going flat out for a General Election even when they had gained what they had been calling for from Theresa May, which she did at the expense of her own position within her Party.

Indeed POGS

But as varian writes above, the winds of change have blown through Parliament. We have more choice now.

No one really knows what the Labour position is on Brexit but regarding the EU elections, the Lib Dems have made it clear they will be the party for Remainers just as the Brexit party is the one Leavers are likely to vote for. The Conservatives will become no-hopers.

If Corbyn gets his GE wish, he could well find himself and the Labour party sidelined. (There is a silver lining in all this, I suppose.)

The political and economic fallout will run and run

But it doesn't have to. ill it really???

European markets have to export too. If they lose their UK markets, member states on the continent will feel it too. The grown up way forward is to do a deal. Unlike remainers, I have faith (as do economists and business people) that we will be able to trade globally and successfully - and with the EU.

The EU will lose it's grip on the UK (and our funding) so it will be keen to ensure it's markets don't suffer too. It is in Brussels interests too to ensure trade between the UK and EU does not hit a brick wall. That would be cutting off the nose to spite the face. There will be hiccups/waves/and some uncertainty but I'd bet a trade deal with the UK will be arranged and agreed by Brussels in a much shorter space of time than the WA wranglings have taken.

My ex husband was saying last weekend that the many small firms on his business park have been safety-proofing themselves for a very long time. They just want forward movement now.

If we are out of the EU at the end of October, they are optimistic that they will carry on their dealings with their EU counterparts on agreeable terms by Jan 2020 or earlier. Their EU contacts want exactly the same thing. They too are fed up with UK political games-playing stopping forward movement happening.

There is more optimism in the business world than Remainers would have us believe. We need to pull the plug and get on with determining how we will trade with the EU in the future. I get the feeling if business people were responsible for the UK exiting the EU, deals would have been done and signed and in working order by now.

Our politicians are a disgrace.

I get the feeling if business people were responsible for the UK exiting the EU, deals would have been done and signed and in working order by now, actually Day6 if business people had taken control, Brexit wouldn't have happened in the first place, but that is history. Undoubtedly, there will be someone along in a minute to quote James Dyson or that awful bloke the man who owns Wetherspoons to tell us differently. I agree with you that we do need a decision though.

This

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain

So its back to the old "they need us more than we need them", "we hold all the cards" soundbites that the dreadful Davies trotted out in his non negotiations. Its us that are "cutting our nose off to spite our face" by tearing up years of treaties and facing renegotiating them, and we certainly won't get a better deal than the free trade one we currently have with 70+ countries. Its "alright if we get poorer because they will as well" is the really spiteful thing.

Brexit is becoming a cult I think. Blind faith and no critical thought.

Day6 Your ex referred to small businesses who anticipate being able to carry on their dealings with their European counterparts after we exit. The owners of small businesses are likely to be dealing with the owners of their European counterparts and will possibly be on friendly terms with them, which makes a tremendous difference. But how many of them fully understand WTO rules and the tarifs that will apply in future if we go out on no deal?

from "Wee Scribbles" politcal artist and commentator :

Choose Hunt. Choose hating Junior Doctors. Choose breaking up the NHS. Choose to blame "hooligans" for the 1989 Hillsborough disaster. Choose to leak sensitive information to Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. Choose to dodge paying £100,000 in tax from property deals. Choose yet another posh twat. Choose chaos.

paddy exactly! Soooooo depressing. Worse still we get NO choice. Strange sort of democracy.

Paddyann a timely reminder that we are facing another Tory bast**d here; it has been easy in the durm and strang of the Boris debacle to think that Hunt is acceptable. Before any snowflake Tories criticise my description; this was the term used by Sir John Major when he was describing the forerunners of the ERG group, the Eurosceptics. Makes you realise how long this small, disproportionate group of EU haters have been with us.

Elect Johnson- and then don't come back and say 'don't blame me, I only put a X in a box' !

Elect him, and then forever carry part of the responsibility.

Like me?
I put a cross on my ballot paper to vote Leave.
I’ve not changed my mind, even after 3 years.
?

How can you sleep at night having put your little cross in that position? You must have learned a lot in the last three years. Ssurely you could not willfully inflict so much damage on our country? Or don't you care as long as your side wins?????

Your cross will take away some of my rights. I resent that.

Thinking about this leadership campaign and claims both candidates are making, it seems to be a complete re-run of the referendum.

Both are promising impossible things. Both are either lying or totally misunderstanding their brief. Neither have a credible plan or even a plan for Brexit.Not that it seems to either bother or be understood by the members, just like the referendum.

An incredible gap in reality in U.K. politics

‘How can you sleep at night?’ varian says.....?
For goodness sake!

WWM2 if Remain had won the referendum then your
Cross would have affected me, but I would have accepted that the greater number wanted to stay in the EU.
I wouldn't have been happy, but would at least have accepted the outcome.
When will posters on GN accept the outcome, and also accept that anyone who voted leave had a right to do so,
Just as they had a right to vote a different way.

I have just found out that Jeremy Hunt is a cousin of Tristram Hunt, Director of the V&A and a former Labour politician, indeed a former Leadership contender against Corbyn.
(For those who have known this all along, oops - slow on the uptake!)
That could have made for an interesting confrontation across the Despatch Box!
Talk about keeping things in the family

why should people accept the destruction of the NHS, the dilution of environmental, chemical, antibiotics, etc and the ensuing environmental damage, at the very time we should be fighting against pollution of all kinds, workers rights in 100s of ways, becoming the puppets of Trump and Putin, and the WTO, the damage ot the peace process in Ireland, etc, etc, etc. Leave voters would not have been aware of the dangers then - but they do now. So they should think again, re-assess - and if they choose the above, being fully aware - then I confirm sleeping soundly should be problematic.

All of the above list do not need to happen! Furthermore, very doubtful that they ever would happen.