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Channel 4 debate

(180 Posts)
Anja Mon 17-Jun-19 06:49:56

If that load of idiots is the best that’s in offer for the next PM then ‘We’re Doomed!’.

MaizieD Wed 19-Jun-19 23:01:44

Well said max very interesting

Which bits did you particularly like, lemon?

This?

A UK where is no poverty, disease is all but vanquished, people in our supposedly first world country are not using foodbanks, where many are homeless, where (according to the UN) over 30% of children live in poverty. Where the ultra rich are free to exploit the system and avoid paying their taxes, where total incompetents can ruin the railways, where schools are critically short of funds, where the elderly face an uncertain future, where social services are fast disappearing,....

I was rather impressed with that and so, I think, would be other posters on here who could reel off the same list.
All caused or exacerbated by the last 9 years of tory government 'austerity' of course... I don't think our solution would be the blessed Nigel, though... Or leaving the EU...

lemongrove Wed 19-Jun-19 22:37:53

grin

Urmstongran Wed 19-Jun-19 22:20:56

Oh well, at least the swimsuit round will be a laugh.
🤣

lemongrove Wed 19-Jun-19 22:17:13

I thought Rory Stewart would be out of the race today, and tomorrow Javid will be out I suspect.

lemongrove Wed 19-Jun-19 22:14:48

Well said max very interesting, and I have yet to read anything so erudite from any 17 year old,in spite of*WWM2*’s opinions.Mind you, wouldn't we all like to be that age again? grin

Iam64 Wed 19-Jun-19 22:09:22

The east India company, other European countries were all involved in exploiting Indian goods to trade for their own profit. The British took over and worked with the Maharajas to profit from silk, cotton, tea and every other thing produced by cheap, exploited mass labour.

A legacy including attempts at political democracy, railways, English language and education systems remain. It’s good that our countries continue to have close and positive links. Nonsense to claim the success of modern India is down to the empire.

MaizieD Wed 19-Jun-19 21:46:03

I still haven't found out what the 'political correctness' is all about. Just ranting generalisations. You might know what you are talking about, maxdecattbut without being given some some concrete examples no-one else does. What on earth is 'the bandwagon of political correctness'?

Incidentally, I find your reading of the history of British involvement in India totally ludicrous. I had a strong interest in it at one time and came to entirely different conclusions from you. The civilising influence of British rule? What a laugh....

Elvive Wed 19-Jun-19 21:26:59

I think we are all ethnics aren't we?

maxdecatt Wed 19-Jun-19 20:46:42

Back on the topic. So Rory Stewart has gone. A pity, but as he was a Remainer it would have been divisive if he had gone forward. Remainers cannot in all honesty organise leaving the EU. To try would be basically dishonest. Theresa May tried and failed.

maxdecatt Wed 19-Jun-19 20:40:50

Elvive. The "brigade"....are all those that leap on the bandwagon of politcal correctness. Who seek out things to be offended about...they do not even need to be personally affronted...they simply adopt the perceived offence and treat it as experienced by themselves and stir up others to protest with them. It is also those that "adopt" (usually unconciously) an "ethnic" person and then revel in their self-image, that of being liberal. (Note the small l). In actual fact all they do is annoy us ethnics who resent being patronised and treated as if we cannot think for ourselves or look after ourselves.

Urmstongran Wed 19-Jun-19 20:36:59

This is proving a very interesting discussion and I’m impressed by your opinions maxdecat especially in view of your heritage.

maxdecatt Wed 19-Jun-19 20:32:56

Iam64: Your first paragraph is not deserving of comment.

As far as the second is concerned I think you will find that the Indian sub-continent was a vast conglomerate of tiny individual states ruled by despots, (Maharajahs) who exploited the people. The arrival of the East India Company changed that and the rule of law was extended across the sub-continent. Then when the Company gave way to the Raj things again took a step forward and that eventually resulted in partition in 1948. A partition needed to keep the Muslims and Hindus apart in order to prevent wholesale slaughte. Thousand died, but total disaater was avoided. India (not so much Pakistan) is now a very succesful nation....thanks to the British influence when the rule of the Maharajahs was ended. You can find faults, of course. But the essence of truth is that British rule created the India of today. Pakistan remains a basket state, but as it has nuclear weapons it is a very unstable basketcase.

Elvive Wed 19-Jun-19 20:17:40

lynch? interesting word

Elvive Wed 19-Jun-19 20:17:00

Who is this bloody Brigade?

Who are " they"

maxdecatt Wed 19-Jun-19 20:11:16

Elivive: If you do not read what I say you will not understand. I was clear in what I think is good foreign aid..... disaster relief such as for famine, flood, fire, medical etc. Unfortunatel those sort of calamities seem to occur to what you call "brown" people more often than to other ethnic groups. btw, the PC brigade will dump on you for saying "brown people". They always see racism where it is not intended. All part and parcel of the "taking offence" industry. I talk from experience, they dumped on me when I talked of Black people. It was horrendous, they wanted to lynch me. I got threats of death and worse. They were so surprised and very embarassed, not knowing where to hide when they found out I am African and my 9 geneations ago grandmother was a slave. She was born to a mother who was a slave, so granny was born a slave as were all her siblings. Maybe that background is why I object to PC spouting liberals going on about political correctness. They think they are protecting us, in fact it is nothing other than an extension of the patronising attitude of "whites" who think they are so very PC and holier than all others and think that all "ethnics" are somehow in need of protection. We do not need such protection, it is patronising and very demeaning to be regarded by some half-wit "liberal" do-gooder as being in need of their hamfisted "protection".

Iam64 Wed 19-Jun-19 19:59:17

Ok max, so you want a Labour or Lib Dem government for this country, so public services aren't totally and permanently destroyed. You certainly don't want the Brexit party or Mr Garage to provide any of your initial wish list for this country. He wants to privatise the NHS and doesn't give a fig for the poor.

So far as India/Pakistan and aid go - you're forgetting the debt we owe because of the Empire. We wrecked the Indian economy and drew a line through the country creating two countries. We had some help in the line drawing from the three key Indian politicians involved in partition.

Elvive Wed 19-Jun-19 19:49:29

So like, look after our own and stuff the brown people, kinda thing?

maxdecatt Wed 19-Jun-19 19:40:36

Elvive: My hopes for the future? A UK where is no poverty, disease is all but vanquished, people in our supposedly first world country are not using foodbanks, where many are homeless, where (according to the UN) over 30% of children live in poverty. Where the ultra rich are free to exploit the system and avoid paying their taxes, where total incompetents can ruin the railways, where schools are critically short of funds, where the elderly face an uncertain future, where social services are fast disappearing,.... Need I go on? I do not belive that Farage alone has the answer, or any answer. But he has demonstrated an ability to shake the political classes to their very roots and to open the eyes of people to an alternative political grouping. I do believe that if the best of the best of our poiltical brains from the full spectrum of political opinion could get together and run the country for the country and not for their party purposes we would get very close to perfection. What do you think? Is that too much to hope for? Also, would it not be a step in the right direction if we stopped giving £14 billion every year in foreign aid. Why do India and Pakistan qualify for millions in aid from us....both squander vast amounts on nuclear weapons, India has a space programme aimed at reaching the moon....more than we can achieve! We give money to Russia, China and every other odious regime on the planet. Trying to win friends and influence people? All we achieve is the impovershment of our own people....refer to the list I made above. By all means give money for disaster relief, drought relief and medical care.... but not for arms and grandiose extravaganzas. The first duty of a government is to look after its own people, anything left over can be dispensed around the world where it may be needed That is what I call a generosity of spirit and a sense of duty. Both lacking in our collective politicians.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 19-Jun-19 19:22:51

Of course it isn’t. This conversation is getting sillier and sillier and I shall end it there.

maxdecatt Wed 19-Jun-19 19:16:16

Whitewavemark2: You flatter me. As 17 year olds cannot vote it would be presumptious of me to engage in political debate.

Elvive Wed 19-Jun-19 19:15:18

So, mad please outline your hopes for the future with your friends in the driving seat.

maxdecatt Wed 19-Jun-19 19:13:46

Gilt57, I have no hatred or anger. What is there to hate about those that have been brainwashed. A feeling of genuine pity for them, yes. But hate? No way!
Anger? Of couyrse not. One cannot be angry with those that know no better. Again, pity is the best way to describe my feelings for them. We must hope for their eventual enlightenment.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 19-Jun-19 19:12:51

Don’t be silly maxcatt you sound about 17 years old.

Elvive Wed 19-Jun-19 19:09:19

Please for the love of God , direct me to the HQ of the PC Brigade?

maxdecatt Wed 19-Jun-19 19:09:00

Gilt57, Whitewavemark2, Fennel: I am pleased that you have read my comment, not a rant as some would have it. If you take the blinkers off and carefullyconsider the points I make you will see the logic. Unless of course you are alreadu so brainwashed as to be beyond simple comprehension of what is staring you in the face.
MaizieD: Maybe you can give examples of what you see as wrong with what I say.