Boris says Oz ‘points system’ coming here.

Calendargirl is that localised to Canberra?
I never hear of young people wanting to travel saying 'I must visit Canberra' although I know that there are school trips there and some people do want to visit.

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Dinahmo perhaps it's because those who are prepared to work hard are the ones who are more enterprising and prepared or want to travel too! Those coming here and our young people travelling overseas.

But as over here, poor pay and hard work, so no surprise no one wants the job.
But the minimum wage in Australia is about A$23 per hour, plus holiday, sick pay and pension contributions. I think that is better than in the UK.

Are all scientists highly skilled? Are they more skilled than people who excel in the Arts?
That's not the point, the point is targeting areas where there is a shortage.

The hospitality sector in Australia struggles the same as here to recruit and retain good staff. My daughter is an executive assistant housekeeper in a busy hotel in the capital, and they can never get enough quality staff as room assistants. Rooms cleaned badly, turning up late or not at all, throwing “sickies”. But as over here, poor pay and hard work, so no surprise no one wants the job.

Are all scientists highly skilled? Are they more skilled than people who excel in the Arts?

Callistemon There's a lesson to be learned there!

Dinahmo Thu 27-Jun-19 15:20:23
It is a peculiarity, though, as the same thing does happen Australia, that young locals do not want to do the work eg on farms, are lazy, don't listen to the training, don't do the job properly, stay for a day, get a headache and don't bother to turn up the next day!
The workers from overseas, including the British, are generally hardworking and enthusiastic.

One thing that is interesting is that so much is out in the open now when it comes to discussing policy, etc. I'm not sure Boris has got that yet.

So it might be, Blinko, but a) UKIP still exists and b) The BP has no apparent manifesto. Its supporters can't just say that it's the same as UKIP's...

MaisieD, surely the Brexit Party is just UKIP rebranded.

How long does anyone think BJ will last as PM? So what does it matter what he 'promises'?

and now the Brexit party, have been suggesting in their manifestos for years,

Ooooh. Has the Brexit Party got a manifesto now?

Can we see it? Have you a link to it?

That is one of the more sensible policies that Boris has invented on the hoof.
BUT
If he really thinks that will reduce the number of migrants he is deluded because our over liberal appeal and deportation system will render it useless. ( unless they are windrush migrants who have residency but can’t prove it)

My sister has lived in Australia for 40 yrs and the system is far tougher than here put one foot wrong and you’re sent home or to an offshore island for “processing”.
Except for Kiwis who have residency status, but that is another “bone of contention”.

Funny how the Tories keep adopting policies which Nigel Farage, as part of UKIP and now the Brexit party, have been suggesting in their manifestos for years, and now they are pretending that they have made the ideas up themselves!!

In preparation for Brexit the government asked its Migration Advisory Committee to report on the economic and social aspects of EU migrants to the UK. They found that in 2016/17 the average UK base EU migrant contributed approximately £2300 pa more to UK public finances than the average UK adult.

Around the time of the referendum there was a series of programmes on BBC about unemployment in East Anglia and jobs being taken by immigrants. The programme focused on unskilled workers, mainly young. The Brits were given job opportunities and, if they succeeded, they would be given a job. Only one person was given the opportunity of a job because the others, quite frankly, were a waste of space. These are some of the jobs that they were given

1. Harvesting asparagus - the young man was shown the size of spears he should pick and he picked everything but the correct size.
2. A Young man living at home with his mother refused to turn up for the job offered and, supported by his mother, stayed at home playing computer games. Both of the moaned about immigration
3. Two men who claimed to have earned £780 per week on road mending/building were asked to place 10 bags of potatoes into the green supermarket crates. They couldn't manage that, varying between 9 and 12 bags.
4. A skilled builder (I've forgotten his trade) went to work for a man who bought properties and did them up for letting. His work force, including his manager, were European but the English builder didn't like to be told what to do by the manager. He could have had a job had he been more amenable.

There are more examples but all the companies involved used EU workers because they had a much better work ethic.

When the subject of social care for the elderly came up someone on Jeremy Vine this morning said that the wages should be increased. But, how much do we expect to pay people for that social care. IMO they should be paid a very good salary - say £40k full time - because it's not exactly pleasant work. But imagine the outcry from the lower ranks of skilled, trained workers at that level of pay.

Finally, in Boston Lincs, at around the same time various professionals were interviewed about immigrants. An head teacher said that her funding was OK for the numbers of immigrant children and if she need more (because of languages) she would be able to get it. A local GP said that his practice saw few immigrants because they were healthy and working. Sadly it's the elderly who take up the time and money

Risk deportation if found involved with criminal activities.

I should have added that you have to become a citizen first before you're allowed to claim anything.

Centrelink will only provide benefit after 3 years. Their version of the DWP.

Australian points system won't work here ! Put that thought on the back-burner for another 30 years.

You need X-amount of money.
Be in good health with no ongoing problems or infectious diseases.
Have a job and accommodation prepared.
A trade is needed.
No criminal record.
No drugs.
It helps to have family who have citizenship.

It seems, reading the Economist article that, while the Australian and Canadian points-based systems appeared to be the answer they created at least as many problems as they solved.

They had to be changed so that points including job-offers always outweighed those who did not have an offer. There are also other issues for employers who get enmeshed in the trivia of the bureaucracy. Looking at the recent Tory past I can imagine we would be good at that.

The concluding paragraph summed it up:

"A simple immigration system that attracts global talent, calms the natives and gives businesses the workers they crave seems an impossible dream. Perhaps it is also a foolish one. Governments cannot know what kind of immigrants their economies will require because they do not know how their economies will evolve. There will always be special pleading and exceptions. As Mr Byrne puts it: “Migration systems are complicated because people are complicated.”

So it seems we are unicorn hunting, yet again.

Day6 - it seems to me there are 3 separate issues here. The first one is about refugees, asylum seekers and illegal immigrants. The problems around these groups are nothing to do with points systems. The second group are EU citizens and when Tony Blair did not put in the controls he could have done when the EU expanded, this group massively expanded. We are stuck now with the results of that but when we leave the EU, they will not be a separate category. Then the third group are non-EU migrants who have the system I’ve linked to applied to them. This group,of course will eventually include all would be migrants from all countries.

From the Telegraph email, this morning, in a paragraph describing this as Johnson "reviving Vote Leaves Australian-style, points-based immigration system. They describe it as "light on detail".

The proposal is nothing new in UK politics, and something similar was attempted a decade ago for non-EU migrants. But the efficacy of such a system is questionable. Australia and Canada, two pioneers of points-based immigration, have had to make big changes but still find that migrants are more likely to be unemployed than locals. The Government, it turns out, isn’t good at picking workers on behalf of businesses.

And, as the critics were pointing out yesterday, having a points-based system says nothing about your actual objectives. Canada, for example, has more than double the migration rate per capita of the UK.

It also points to an article in the Economist here: www.economist.com/international/2016/07/07/whats-the-point It's a long article and some of it's behind a paywall. I will try and precis it later but this was its theme I would say.

“There’s something deep in the British psyche about the Australian system,” says Mr Byrne. But points-based immigration regimes look most attractive from a distance. The countries that invented them concluded some time ago that they are flawed, and have tweaked them radically. They have also discovered that points systems do not completely cure xenophobia."

I think immigration has to have a positive effect, and it does here, mostly.

I really do not understand a policy which allows unemployed, illiterate, unskilled people into the UK as they will need homing, feeding and benefits. That is a drain on the taxpayer and the infrastructure of the country. To be provided for without contributing is wrong. Wouldn't we all like that set-up?

I appreciate it is humane and proper to offer shelter and safety to asylum seekers and people who are persecuted and I am glad we can do that but even then there should be obligations to (in time) find work and try to become self-sufficient. I know of immigrant families who do just that.

I dislike the cradle to grave UK welfare system that is exploited by some. One wonders why so many people (mainly young men) are camping out in Calais to try to enter the UK illegally. Our lax system has to be one of the reasons why.

I have been watching the BBC 2 series about the factory - it follows the manufacture of everyday things: sausages, biscuits, mayo - it is very interesting. But what is very clear is that the majority of the factory workers are E European - so be careful Boris, or I will not get my much loved mayonnaise!

I think to go to live permanently in Australia you also have to pass a strict medical.

The points based system is good because government can award more points for skills we need like doctors and nurses but less points for skills we already have plenty of and very few points for unskilled people. Points can also be awarded on age and if have a UK spouse. We should also adopt the strict medical pass for permanent residence.