Fox Hunting

There is a specific mention on here of the cruel method of slaughter involved in halal meat. The method required for kosher meat is, I believe, very similar.

I have read that Jewish people feel criticisms of kosher slaughter practices are anti-semitic, and, similarly, Muslim people feel criticisms of halal slaughter practices are islamophobic. In my view, it is not racist to question practices that demean or hurt other human beings or animals.

I don't know enough about these methods to come to a conclusion. Many vets apparently feel that it is much more humane to stun an animal before slaughter. However, my understanding is that Islamic (and possibly Judaic) rules encompass an animal's welfare throughout its life. It seems to me that being concerned about how an animal is slaughtered is justified. But some would argue that animals reared for food are often mistreated every day of their miserable lives and the manner of their deaths is just a continuance of the cruelty experienced throughout their lives.

jura you had the satisfaction of knowing you helped feed young cubs?

I had chickens killed by a fox and I was really angry - not at the fox but, at myself for not having secured them properly.
I see absolutely no justification whatsoever in ill-treating animals for sport.

I am sorry about the lost livelihoods but, as hunting has been illegal for so long, those jobs should have been long gone. I suppose the people who were employed in cock-fighting and bear-baiting lost their jobs too when those sports were made illegal - not to mention those whose jobs were affected after the emancipation of slaves......

Very magnanimous of you jura most people would have disposed of the dead hens.

Excellent post lemon - and of course, chicken in a coop are in a totally un-natural situation. Once the fox is in, they will go crazy, running around - and the fox's instinct will just take over. When one took our 5, she had young to feed and buried those she didn't take away. We decided that dead for dead, we would leave the chickens buried with feet sticking up under the big yew hedge- the vixen came back the next 2 nights and they were all gone.

I don’t agree with fox hunting ( or stag hunting).
The reason foxes kill as many chickens as possible ( instead of taking just one) is that they are hard wired to go for as many easy kills as possible, and return for them later.
In nature that would be a couple of rabbits, but in a henhouse of course there are loads.They don’t do it because they enjoy killing ( unlike some humans.)

Not on Exmoor or The Quantox! Both these packs of Stag Hounds are very much in operation. We lived on Exmoor for 20 years and witnessed them on a regular basis. Stag hunting is horrid, much worse than fox,but that's only my opinion. The poor thing has no chance of escape and it should be banned, full stop.

Yes, I was just thinking that...

Anyway, this thread has me another step closer to becoming a reluctant vegetarian.

MissAdventure smashing a pet over the head with a hammer, while 100% wrong, would be a lot quicker than what happens to cubs and foxes

To me, the argument for hunting down animals is the equivalent of smashing a pet over the head with a hammer to put an end to its suffering instead of taking it to a trained vet.
Sorry, that was graphic!

Elitism is not true, and what of those who follow hunt In trucks ? And farmers help with cubbing , are they elitist?
Those who take part in lamping ?

I fully understand about some animals needing to be culled and if we are discussing the countryside and farmers perhaps we should consider the difference between how foxes are killed and how deer are killed. Both are problems for farmers with deer destroying and eating crops and foxes doing the same for animals, but deer are killed quickly and cleanly by licensed gun men, whereas foxes are terrified, chased and torn apart by dogs.

I don't object to elitist people hunting down an animal; I would object to anyone doing it.
If it was a group of teens on bikes in a rough area chasing a wild animal I would find it just as objectionable.

Exactly easybee, but perhaps enough said!

After commenting about cubbing earlier, I was very sorry to see a man in camouflage on a quad go past just now. No point phoning the farmer, he only leases the land from the Duke and has to allow the hunt free access. Makes me feel sick to my stomach.

There are extremes on the scale.
I know a vegan who is totally against what he calls "humans fetishising animals" (keeping them as pets) because he considers it cruel and unnecessary.
Castrating them to stop them displaying normal animal behaviours, and so on.. just to pander to our egos so we can treat them as companions, keeping them indoors for "their protection".
Is he right or wrong?

I have no desire to chase an animal to its death, or shoot birds or go fishing for sport, but if wild animals are left unculled they become a pest, to themselves and others. What so many people object to in hunting is that it is perceived as an elitist social activity, which apparently doesn't apply to shooting or fishing.

I do not eat meat and what hysterics Jabberwok ? W If you had witnessed
cubbing , seen cubs being fed live to hounds you would have said to those with you ‘no call for hysterics ?

Jabberwok Wilde's actual saying is "The unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable"
I don't think there are many people chasing animals around slaughter houses.
I actually eat very little meat.

No, neither would I, hunting is something I would never want to do, but I think concentrating on one cruelty to the point of hysterics while totally ignoring, excusing or third hand contributing the other is hypocritical! Treating animals as a commodity is just wrong! We condemn the people of the Far East for incredible cruelty, but if we're honest in some areas, behind closed doors and out of the way places, we're nearly as bad, but choose to keep quiet.

I don't think its particulary hypocritical to wonder what on earth people get out of chasing an animal to its death.

Unless someone lives in some kind of vegan bubble then we're all guilty to some extent.

We all do what we can; what our conscience allows, but I'm glad that whilst I'm far from perfect, I would find no joy whatsoever from a day with the hunt, any more than I'd enjoy a day in the slaughterhouse.

Slaughter Houses fit that description trisher! Do you feel strongly about those poor creatures too, or do you subscribe to the theory that as they are bred for human consumption somehow their terror, particularly the unfortunate ones who are "Halal ", are somehow unimportant,and cruelty here doesn't quite count and is therefore acceptable?! Such hypocrisy!!

The reality is there is no point having a free vote because there is a massive majority against hunting in the general population, although some rural areas would certainly be pro hunting.

Many of the equine fraternity do enjoy the “chase” because it gives them the opportunity to ride where otherwise they could not. Wether a Fox is caught does not matter, they have had a good chase, of course at present they are not allowed to catch foxes

I wrote earlier about my cousin protecting his ewes and lambs.
Where we lived in France the Chasse was always busy, in restricted seasons. To protect their crops, and poultry. And they ate most of the wild boar and deer who were responsible for all the damage. They didn't eat the foxes as far as I know.
They used dogs to round up but not to kill. For that they used guns. and there were many terrible accidents involving humans every season. All farmers have guns.
There's a strong anti-Chasse movement in France too.
We lost some of our poultry to foxes.
It's difficult to decide - if the foxes need to be killed, should it be by dogs or guns? In theory guns, but not everyone is a good shot.

Jabberwock I think Oscar Wilde was more incredulous at people hunting an animal that was inedible, than any anxiety about cruelty
Wilde calls the hunters "unspeakable"-synonyms for that are dreadful, awful, appalling, horrific, horrifying, horrible, terrible, horrendous, atrocious, insufferable, abominable, abhorrent, repellent, repulsive, repugnant, revolting, sickening, frightful, fearful, shocking, hideous, ghastly, grim, dire, hateful, odious, loathsome, gruesome, monstrous, outrageous, heinous, deplorable, despicable, contemptible, execrable, vile, indescribable,
It's not an expression that means he was just concerned with the cruelty. He rejected the whole concept.