The people who have everything also run everything.

Do you think children who do not speak English should not be admitted to schools in this country GrannyGravy?

working hard....is an option for all.

making your way.....is easier for some than others.

Clear now?

Dunno about grannygravy but I think the best way for kids to learn English is to mix with English speaking kids.

Extra language lessons would be good too of course.

I was waiting to observe who would be the first to make a disparaging remark to my comment.

Oh, so you are beyond criticism?

What were you hoping for Glammy57 - applause for being so caring? Your post regarding how virtuous you are compared to others did you no favours, sadly.

Who was that aimed at less?

Not all of us who have had a good education go into well-paid jobs. Not all nurses, teachers ( and others) aspire to reach the top of their profession, or become one of The Powers that Be, as they would be removed from the very people they try to help.

Shall we keep it civil?

True Cabbie. Sounds ok to me.

I was replying to maggiemaybe' s post where she said there was a class of 7-8 year olds with 28 different languages spoken between them.

It stands to reason that this would/could be problematic, to the overall teaching and learning capabilities in that class.

I know from experience that children pick up languages easily, but surely they would need to have a fairly decent understanding of the language the syllabus is being taught in.

28 different languages in one school is crazy, no wonder our schools are having a difficult time!
Do schools in all other countries cater to this I wonder, or is it just the UK?

MawBroon...watch it! Quoting Latin phrases is considered elite on GN.?

Perhaps the way to even things out would be to stop money being passed at death to the next generation, i.e. everyone starts on a level playing field. Money from estates could be re-distributed annually across the population so that everyone gets an equal share. Just saying.

Surely we as civilized human beings should be trying to promote equality of opportunity and showing compassion

But we do. The UK is by and large and enlightened society. Equal opportunities legislation is alive and kicking here.

Most people are compassionate. Most people care. We have a welfare state.

What we don't have and never have had is people being born into equally wealthy circumstances.

It does not matter how long we discuss the issue, we cannot make the poor rich or the rich poor, by force or by law, unless we lived in some sort of draconian, communist hell.

The best we have got is the recognition that some people get more advantages in life by dint of birth. It's called life.

It means we try to make things fairer, but we can only do so much.

Most people without a privileged background get on in life by working hard both at school and in the workplace. It may not make them rich, and life may always be a struggle, but it is likely to raise their standard of living and maybe, their self-esteem. Life isn't easy for most people.

humpty ????

My daughters,at the age of 11, had the chance to join a European school in England. Some of the lessons were taught in French only. They coped. Even the one who had had no French lessons at all. Kids can be amazing.

Yes Humpty ???

Can't agree with that humpty. Why should the money my husband worked hard to earn and to save, go to the children of less hardworking people? We all pay our taxes.

I agree with Day6's post there.

Of course some are going to be better off than others and total equality is not possible. What is unhealthy in our society is the fact some are grossly disadvantaged, and however hard they work will never lift themselves out of poverty, and others through accident of birth will acquire huge unearned wealth. It is a fact that a child born into a poor family in the UK has a very slim chance of succeeding in the education system, for many reasons associated with poverty, and this is measurable as early as 3 and 5 years of age. Are they all thick?? Education opens the door to social mobility.

a child born into a poor family in the UK has a very slim chance of succeeding in the education system, for many reasons associated with poverty

That's almost as if we are writing off human potential because of the 'sins of the fathers'.

I remember my politically active friend lecturing me in the 70s regarding my 'station in life'. We were as poor as they come. But I worked hard at school. Mum took us to the library to borrow books, which we read. We had very little but encouragement.

He said "Just because your father cycles to work and wears a flat cap, you don't have to."

Are you saying some parents don't encourage their children?

Or some parents have no interest in education or don't value education?

You are talking about a vicious circle really whereby nurture matters but doesn't happen maybe?

A poor parent is not necessarily a crap parent. Some people do not seize their opportunities - the obvious one being education, because their parents didn't bother?

Don't Oscar's words apply here? They did for us.

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." – Oscar Wilde.

Or are we excusing poor parenting because there isn't much money in the household? I'd say that is the very worst type of support. A hand up is what's needed, not an excuse to lie back and do as little as possible because of 'circumstances' Yes, it is depressing having to scrimp and scrape, but it's by no means a unique situation and one that has to endure, for generations.

I am part of a national survey which has interviewed and studied us from birth in order to create a true picture of life in the UK across the generations. There are volumes of reports and reams of data but I have copied this little snippet on social mobility for interest.

^Are you saying some parents don't encourage their children?

Or some parents have no interest in education or don't value education?

You are talking about a vicious circle really whereby nurture matters but doesn't happen maybe?^

I'd say yes, yes and yes. For many reasons - their own background, health issues, where they come from, perhaps they've just escaped a war zone with nothing and have other more pressing priorities. And however much we might want to castigate the parents for their lack of interest, if we feel it's justified, does it make sense, or is it common humanity, to let the children suffer?

A hand up is precisely what the Sure Start initiative was offering, and it's been withdrawn. Surely it makes sense in every way imaginable to try and tackle poor parenting, rather than let the vicious circle continue? If we do that we certainly are writing off human potential.

But first and foremost isn't it a parent's duty to do their best for their children, to want the best for them, no matter what their circumstances?

You are saying the state should provide the encouragement, the workers to 'nurture' such children.

I totally agree that we encourage and make it easier to achieve but by the same token you are saying austerity measures (budgeting by any other name) is to blame for children not taking their opportunities.

Going to school is not an 'obstacle', not in this day and age.

The buck has to stop somewhere. For some people it's at the door of Number ten instead of in the parent's domain.

You can still do your best, even if poor. It does cloud other areas of life, but not to the extent that you do not want the best for your family. I applaud hard-up parents everywhere who strive to make their children's lives the best they can be.

And most do, Day6, and we should all applaud them. But I'm saying we should give that hand up (and it was you who mentioned it) to those who need it. What did you have in mind by that, if not the sort of basic help that Sure Start was providing?

What sense is there in letting them sink?

austerity is to blame in the example given by MM.

Apart from the fact that it is cruel not to care for people, it makes terrible economic sense. The problems which could have been prevented early on, reappear later and cost millions in interventions.

Day6 first comment resonated with me. DH and I both worked for millionaires (different companies) and without doubt they were the most generous employers we ever had. Not just to us but in terms of giving to charity/sponsorship etc.

In contrast, I also worked in the public sector with strong socialist bosses and colleagues who were the meanest most hypocritical people you could wish to meet. They talked a very good talk but rarely walked the walk.

Guess who I think should be running things.....