Who represents the real Tory Party?

If GN Grandmothers and Grandfathers are a typical cross section of society,

Well, they're not. They're only typical of their age group. Predominately rightwing.

But I like the changes in the Labour Party, they say it'll take us back to the 70's. Bring it on I say, we had full employment, you could buy a house on one persons salary, our schools & hospitals were great.
It was a different Great Britain to the one I inhabited, the n, spabbygirl!
I remember the posters saying "Labour isn't Working" - queues of unemployed people, inflation at 30% resulting in a bail-out from the IMF, the Winter of Discontent and the Prime Minister himself saying:
Even Callaghan himself seemed to have little faith in his native land. "Our place in the world is shrinking: our economic comparisons grow worse, long-term political influence depends on economic strength - and that is running out," he told his colleagues in November 1974. "If I were a young man, I should emigrate."

which all resulted in a victory for Margaret Thatcher in 1979.

I agree that politics in this country is becoming polarised and until all those in the centre stand together and unite it will continue.

I remember the posters saying "Labour isn't Working" - queues of unemployed people,

I'm sure we all do, Callistomen. Do we all remember, though, that within a short space of time the 1 million unemployed at the time of that poster had swelled to 3 million under the Thatcher government? Yosser Hughes 'give us a job' and The Boys from the Black Stuff taking advantage of Freedom of Movement to get the jobs in Germany that they couldn't get in Britain. Fiction they might have been but they reflected the state of unemployment under the tories.

The 70s might not have been wonderful for many but the 80s were no better.

I think that the Thatcher government spelled the beginning of the end for One Nation toryism and sowed the seeds of the extraordinary situation we find ourselves in today.

Agree with you well said. MaizieD

In actual fact, the Conservative party has been moving from the right to the centre ground for years. It was begun deliberately to gain floating voters after Cameron and co saw the success with which Tony Blair hoovered up the electorate for three successive election victories.

Their policies are clearly more like the 'tax and spend' policies of the New Labour centre right than any mandate pursuing traditional Conservative values such as:- small state/low tax, family, prudence, education, responsibility, self reliance, truth and freedom, free trade and opportunity for all.

I cannot blame The Conservatives for having to follow policies to refloat the economy after the last Labour splurge but they have been attacking their own prudent, hardworking, taxpaying, law abiding followers. These are such policies as the hike in Stamp Duty, the continuance of high taxes, the lack of support for the police pursuing crime and criminals, the lack of support for armed forces members being pursued over events under orders which happened forty years ago, the continual PC statements issued by ministers pandering to the 'woke' and PC agenda, the identification with an undemocratic EU and global agenda, the pursuit of sin tax policies, the list goes on. Their record on immigration has been risible.

Whether or not you agree with their policies, there is no question that they are now in intention and deed a centre leftish party.

Personally, I would like a government which took a reasonable amount of tax and spent it prudently on the deserving, which did not gouge the prudent of their savings and self reliance, which minded its own business in the questions of lifestyle and opinions, which allowed free speech, which promoted equality of opportunity and which listened to its voters.

The 70’s ? Strikes . The 80’s Thatcher . The 90’ ? A strong opposition leader which brought three consecutive general
election wins for Labour.

The far left speak of Blair as if he was Lucifer .

Good post Lilyflower ??

And also Annie ?

Yes, although Blair did make mistakes, Anniebach (we all know what they are) it was better to become a more moderate Labour Party, win elections and introduce some good social policies than lurch to the left and probably have no hope of ever being elected.

Why let a little thing like an illegal war spoil his reputation

I don't think Corbyn is extreme. I imagine when the NHS and state pension was first mooted, the establishment was not exactly over the moon. The Daily Mail's take on it was:

"On Monday morning, you will wake up in a new Britain – in a State which 'takes over' all citizens six months before they are born. The government would oversee each citizen's "birth... schooling, sickness, workless days, widowhood, and retirement."

In my view, it's about time we had a government which returned to the old principles of defying the establishment and its media supporters and bringing in policies that protect our public services and support workers and their families.

night owl, I can't imagine any posters here would disagree with you about the illegal war in Iraq. The marches 'not in my name' were fantastically well supported, many wrote to MP's , to Blair etc but to no avail. It's no consolation to those of us who opposed the war to have been proved right. It was based on mistruths, bad information, lies - find your own belief there. It was beyond dreadful and I wish Blair and Bush could have faced a court like The Hague after WW2. They didn't. The war was unforgivable and the region, as well as the war mongers live with the consequences and will do so for as far as we can see.
Blair carries responsibility for that, its indefensible.
However, Sure Start, Family Centres, money into education and health - the LP should shout loud about that. They should also shout loud that it needed to happen because of years of Tory neglect of public services.

If the Labour Party had a leader like Blair Labour would win
the next election.

Good post, Iam64
However, Blair did also carry on and privatise services, which I thought that New Labour would not.

Not Blair or anyone like him again either - just someone moderate with decency and strength to bring the party together and rid the party of extremists.

Yes, you're right about the move towards privatisation Callistemon, plus PFI of course. Though those new hospitals, schools and community centres had to be funded.

I've just watched Dispatches, I haven't caught up with other posts so no doubt there will be posts about Islamaphobia in the Conservative party. It was so very depressing to watch Turning Point UK's growing influence. The admiration for Trump from so many party members was depressing, in fact scary.
We're likely to have Boris as PM. I expect he'll call an early election which on current showing, he'll win and we'll be in for five more awful years where our NHS and public services are sold of to Mr Trump's friends .

Hospital doctors are cutting their hours because of tax bills

Well Anniebach if Boris’ tax plan adjustments go ahead the doctors will be pleased - up to £80k for the new threshold I think, for tax cuts.

They won’t be working overtime ‘for nothing’ for much longer will they?

The Conservative Party has always been many stranded but there does seem to be a rise of what might be called the nativist right. I found this a very uncomfortable article to read: theconversation.com/the-new-right-how-a-frenchman-born-150-years-ago-inspired-the-extreme-nationalism-behind-brexit-and-donald-trump-117277 but have heard similar comments from Tory voters rather on other forums as well as shaded versions of similar thinking on here.

Is this, currently small group, within the Tory party likely to become the face of this party? It could. Small in number they may be but there are so many fault lines within the party that a small group could take power and I notice one name mentioned in the article is a leading light in the ERG, currently running Johnson and his campaign.

Just playing devil's advocate slightly but what would have happened, I wonder, if we hadn't been part of the war in Iraq?

I'm glad someone else saw the Dispatches programme. If you can plough through it Iam I would be interested to know what you make of the Article I have linked.

I’ve saved the article to ‘Pocket’ and will read it later today too GracesGranMk3 (it too early for serious stuff just yet I’ve not had my first cuppa yet!).
?

It is all about control and control is happening by the back door, all those who have gone cashless for starters. Tracked via card spends and that is only the beginning. We the public want our freedom back, freedom for the children, freedom so that we don`t have to whisper our thoughts to our friends, in case of being overheard in a public place. Freedom to be full of humour and fun, like we used to be.

The fun has gone

Thanks, UG. It's not for the fainthearted or those without several cups of their favourite brew.

That's a very long article GGM3 but I've skimmed most of it. I found it a depressing read because it reflects the fears I have about the rise of the right. It's being dressed up as preserving 'our culture' and expecting others to either embrace our culture or go live somewhere were their own culture is the main one.
The support from Trump in the southern states of the US is terrifying. Make America white again is one chant. Like it ever was white, like the original inhabitants didn't have their own culture, now confined to reservations. Like the black American's weren't stolen and shipped there as slaves.

The treatment of women is disgusting. A young woman in Alabama was arrested and charged with causing the death of her unborn baby. She was five months pregnant, shot in the abdomen by her partner, the baby died, she survived. The police said she was responsible because she caused the row with the boyfriend. Fortunately, the DA wouldn't progress the case.

If we end up with Boris as PM (and it will take a miracle imo for Mr *unt to beat him) we must not lose sight of Boris's links to the alt right. He and Farage are both in contact with Steve Bannon, who was a Trump advisor.

I try to keep my feet grounded and not go into 'there's a bomb in the hall Captain Mainwearing" mode but, we are living in dangerous times. We have an inept leader of the LP, even those close to him are beginning to express concerns he's being manipulated by the gang of four around him. I know this isn't a popular view amongst Jeremy's supporters but it's receiving too much coverage from sensible people in the know for it to be simply a conspiracy by the right wing press.
The Conservative party has lost its mind. Cameron led us into a referendum that shouldn't have happened and then disappeared off into the sunset. We all watched the events of the last years unfold in varying degrees of horror, whichever side of the Leave/Remain side we're on, its been a shambles.

I've been involved in the women's movement since I was in my early 20's. I've voted Labour, been an active union member. So always on the left I accept that. I have friends who vote conservative but none who would support the alt right/ukip/Tommy Robinson etc etc. I hesitate to say it but I do begin to feel we're all doomed.

iam64 a well thought through and depressing but true post

Iam and Whitewave, I agree.

Thoughtfully reviewed Iam. Strangely, knowing others feel aware of this makes me feel less "doomed" but as you say, we do indeed live in dangerous times.