Dominic Grieve attempt to block Johnson's ability to prorogue Parliment

It is important to remember what Dominic Grieve means by the end of democracy... it means the end of people like him being elected and then to ignore the views of his electorate because he knows better!

maybe "Brexit" which has caused him to defend the old way but it is a serial complaint over decades where constituents have found their wishes ignored or voted against because of either a party 3-line whip has forced the MP to vote a certain way or the MP themselves have voted a certain way not in line with the general feeling of the local party or the local voters they represent.

It is "not the end of democracy" as he would like to portray he is talking about, it is the end of where specifically he had power to rule over others.

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Johnson is not Charles 1 - if he insists well, we know what happened to him.

Parliament MUST remain sovereign, they are our representatives

Stormont has been suspended now for over 2 years and the people in Ireland are getting on with their lives.

Would 2 months without a Parliament whose MP’s are hell bent on Remain do much harm if it enables Brexit?

Just a thought!
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Urmstongran Dominic Grieve has been MP for Beaconsfield since 1997 which suggests that he is a pretty good constituency MP. The referendum results for Beaconsfield were Remain 50.99% and Leave 49.01% so he's hardly going against the wishes of his electorate

It is important to remember what Dominic Grieve means by the end of democracy... it means the end of people like him being elected and then to ignore the views of his electorate because he knows better!

It is even more important to remember how our parliamentary democracy actually works. This underhand attempt to change it will not and cannot succeed. If you want to change it then you will have to work towards that end. We have a representative parliamentary democracy, not a delegated one. I have a feeling those who think that our MPs should behave as if they were delegates will continue to have their noses put out of joint for some time to come - or they will take their bats home and stop voting.

maybe "Brexit" which has caused him to defend the old way

Could you tell me when parliament voted to change from the "old way"? There has been no vote to change to a delegated parliament - has there?

Beaconsfield constitutes ain’t happy though are they? He almost got deselected but Mrs May backed him (well she would, wouldn’t she?).

ug are you supporting proroguing?

After 3 long years of shenanigans by the HoC if Boris (I think it’ll be him) decides in his wisdom, with the support of Attorney General Geoffrey (Rumpole) Cox that it’s the only was to get this done, then yes, bring it on. It won’t hurt for 8 weeks. The brains in government will sort it out.
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It’s above my pay grade to worry.

It's the constituency party that doesn't like Grieve - about 350 people and then not all of them. I would have thought that 22 years as an MP stands for than a small majority for de-selection brought about by recently joined Brexiteers.

I suppose the proof of the pudding in Beaconsfield will be at the next GE! I don’t think Dominic Grieve will be back in the HoC after it’s held. I think even he’d be surprised if he was voted back in!
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You just can't make it up - those people who shout for years about our Democracy being taken over by the EU (and it is NOT) - saying that Proroguing our own Sovereign Parliament would be ok/democratic enough.

I am very sure our Sovereign Queen would never agree to that - 100%.

Speaker blocks vote on Grieve's amendment ...

It's above my pay grade to worry.

Well, Ug, a great many people who are at the right pay grade are desperately worried about the extreme damage to our Constitution which would be caused by such an act. It's all very well to parrot the irresponsible rubbish spewed out by your hero, Farage, but it's extraordinarily dangerous to muck about with the very fabric of government.

Furthermore, to casually vote for unprecedented major change and then stroll away to leave it for 'the brains' (only the brains that you agree with, of course) to sort it out, is not a good look.

Bercow doesn’t seem too worried about it.

Probably because it won’t happen anyway. He’s weighed up the odds.

As I said earlier, Stormont has been suspended now for over 2 years and the sky hasn’t fallen in!

Stormont has a back up -Westminster

I think that logic like that is somewhat above Ug's paygrade, WW2.

Urmstongran ?don’t worry, when posters resort to personal remarks it means they are getting short of things to say.
I don’t think it will be the case that Parliament will not have a say in what happens, but no deal is definitely on the table.

It's thought Speaker Bercow is keeping his powder dry until the autumn. As I said in the OP Grieve didn't think this would work but it is important to keep the pressure on.

UG you appear to only believe in the rule of law when it suits you. Would that be a reasonable conclusion to your view of whether Johnson should stick to the rules?

Ah I don’t mind the witticisms lemongrove and MaizieD is very quick!
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Fair response.

And no I don’t think laws ought to be broken.
I depend on my government to do the ‘right’ thing so I don’t have to worry about events.

The trouble is, I have no confidence in any PM or party in government to do the right thing anymore!

Sterling is today at its lowest for years- and the Head of WTO states clearly that Boris Johnson's idea of WTO rules in favour of UK are just nonsense.

Brexit, the gift that keeps giving

jura not half☹️

I depend on my government to do the ‘right’ thing so I don’t have to worry about events.

You seem to express contradictory views UG. We have a representative democracy. That means, having told you how the think on certain areas before an election, if they are voted in they go to parliament, representing the whole of their constituency - those who voted for them and those who didn't - and the make their decisions in what they believe to be in all those constituents best interest.

You keep wanting to change this so that your MP and everyone else's must vote for what you want but that is not their job. You also want them to do things that might destroy our democracy just as long as you get what you want. I do wonder just how far you would be prepared to go to get this nebulous future that a small proportion, an extremely neoliberal proportion, of the still almost governing party seem to be prepared to inflict on our country by hook, or in this case, possibly crook.