Johnson’s Government

This is ridiculous.

Is the concept of a Political Party choosing their successor when the Leader resigns so difficult to understand???

A General Election means a Political Party, NOT, an individual is elected. End of.

An election in the devolved nations means a Political Party, NOT, an individual is elected. End of.

This procedure is blatantly obvious and it is also blatantly obvious only the Political Party, Of ANY COLOUR !!!!!! , chooses their Leader.

This is not undemocratic.

This is usual procedure.

The fact is ' Democracy ' and ' Established Procedures ' are only ' acceptable ', only suit ' some ' individuals if and when the outcome fits their politics but they cry shouts of Undemocratic / disgraceful when the outcome does not. It is also used for propaganda, spin but for the most part it is hypocrisy!

Whether it be Tony Blair/Gordon Brown, Theresa May/Boris Johnson or any possible future Resignations of a Prime Minister, possibly Jeremy Corbyn/ Boris Johnson their respective political parties have the democratic right to vote for their successor.

The only way to change the system is to legislate that on the resignation of the Prime Minister/First Minister of a devolved nation a General Election must take place. What grounds can be found to overturn the democratic election of a Political Party of ANY colour after a General Election will however in my mind be ' UNDEMOCRATIC '.

Well said POGS. So many posters here with left wing leanings decrying the fact that BJ is the new Prime minister. Did they say the same when Tony Blair handed over to Gordon Brown mid term? I await their justification of that......

POGS good and clear post ???

One of the reasons this has become such a contentious issue is because of the huge press coverage for the Hunt/Johnson debates which have caused a lot of people to believe they should be consulted. In the past the transition was done quietly with little fuss. The whole process is becoming more presidential and so perhaps there should be a chance for more people to be involved and the system to change.

I don't have left wing leanings at all - far from it but it doesn't mean I am happy with a cheat and a bare-faced liar for PM. Fortunately Farage has to be elected to parliament before he can do too much damage.
It is all a very sad state of affairs but I expect we have got what we deserve.
We shall have to wait and see.

It is sad, dragonfly. It's a sad reflection on the electorate that Johnson is what we deserve.

Several weeks ago I read a comment from an MEP of one of the other countries, who said the UK is having problems getting a deal agreed too because of their style of Parl. democracy. It's too difficult to get a meaningful majority vote.
This is the problem the Tories have too - even Cameron had to get the support of the lib-dems, and May the DUP.
I expect Boris will face a similar problem, as many cabinet members etc have withdrawn their support.
and Labour have a similar situation.

Well, that’s three cabinet members resigned so they can vote against no deal. Johnson’s majority just disappeared in a puff of smoke.

I knew it dragon fly, you are a crazed Corbynista/Marxist lurking and waiting to pounce.

POGS 'A General Election means a Political Party, NOT, an individual is elected. End of.

An election in the devolved nations means a Political Party, NOT, an individual is elected. End of.

This is not undemocratic.

This is usual procedure.'

and on and on ... repeat, again- Yes we all know that - however the current situation means that Boris will be in a position to make decisions which will have a profound and disastrous effect on the country, and perhaps the EU and was beyond - having been 'appointed' by a minuscule % of the citizens of the country. And this is seriously undemocratic, whatever the mantra you keep repeating.

He has NO mandate whatsoever for the plans he has, and NO majority either- and with the resignations taking place today- even more beholden to the DUP and to Trump with the Iran situation.

Not sure if you choose to ignore, or are unaware ...

And was it undemocratic when Gordon brown took over from Tony Blair, jura2 , or does it only apply to when the Tories do it?

I really don't know why he was elected leader - except that they must have considered the alternative even worse.

That is a sad reflection on the state of the leading party in the House of Commons - that they can only field a choice of bad or worse.

Pantglas1 - indeed it was undemocratic when Gordon Brown took over - and one of the first to point that out was......Boris Johnson!

Indeed, I did copy his response at the time, it started with 'it is the arrogance that gets me ...'

At last! Thank you lucky girl for being honest enough to answer.

If it’s undemocratic for one party to do it, then obviously, reasonably, logically, it must be so for any party to do it. So why can’t folks acknowledge that it happens across the board instead of stuffing their partisan fingers in their ears, hopping up and down like Rumplestiltskin shouting ‘it’s not fair!’

Some of these posts are making me laugh.
‘In the past it was done quietly with little fuss’ ( a change of PM mid term.)Err, not that quietly, and in any case what kind of spurious argument is that?
It is democratic, always was and still is.Just because people don’t like the choice means zilch.
Also, ministers resigning does not mean Johnson’s majority has vanished, they have just resigned as ministers they are still Conservative MP’s, now to be backbenchers.

Exactly Pantglas it’s become ridiculous.
Perhaps we would all like a say next time in the Labour choice of PM if they change over mid term,even though we are not members and have no intention of ever being.

The majority, vanishingly small as it always was, for no deal has gone @lemongrove. Those three would also vote against the government in a confidence vote, along with many of their colleagues. Those are the only issues of any significance right now. They resigned to bring Boris down.

yes lemon- and fight against No Deal and proroguing from said backbenches ...

and even Farage has now said he has NO mandate and his only choice is an early GE, which he will probably loose.

To remind those who have forgotten:

' Writing about the Labour prime minister Gordon Brown, who took over from Tony Blair without an election, Boris Johnson lays into Brown’s lack of “mandate from the British people”. He describes the “transition about as democratically proper as the transition from Claudius to Nero”, calling it a “scandal”, “fraud” and “nothing less than a palace coup”.

Here’s his intro:

“It’s the arrogance. It’s the contempt. That’s what gets me. It’s Gordon Brown’s apparent belief that he can just trample on the democratic will of the British people. It’s at moments like this that I think the political world has gone mad, and I am alone in detecting the gigantic fraud.”

His description of Tony Blair being elected in the last general election, 2005:

“They voted for Anthony Charles Lynton Blair to serve as their leader. They were at no stage invited to vote on whether Gordon Brown should be PM… They voted for Tony, and yet they now get Gordon, and a transition about as democratically proper as the transition from Claudius to Nero. It is a scandal. Why are we all conniving in this stitch-up? This is nothing less than a palace coup… with North Korean servility, the Labour Party has handed power over to the brooding Scottish power-maniac.” '

Don’t be so sure Shoe if they do, then they bring themselves down and usher in a Corbyn government.
Can’t see turkeys voting for Christmas whatever they say this week.

It's a critical time just now so inevitably there will be more focus on this undemocratic process. I cannot imagine why you are surprised Pantglas1 that I, and others, apply the same judgement to all parties in that situation.

The rules are undemocratic; no question about that in my mind.

Well jura... he would say that wouldn’t ‘e?
The Conservatives wanted a GE at that point.

What's happened to the Ulster Unionists?

Maybe it is about time for a coalition and cross party negotiating with the EU.