Johnson’s Government

And yet, Elegran- I do not know of any Nun's habit which requires full face covering, like the Burka, or the Nicab, with the eye slit. Wear any kind of religious clothing, that covers head as the Quoran is interpreted to require- although most Muslim women I know do not wear any headcovering 99% of the time.

In France, wearing a simple scarf prevents women from attending school, being teachers or civil servants, etc- and I find this totally wrong and ridiculous. Especially as Christian nuns, Protestants or mainly Catholics- are free to wear such, as well as Crucifix, etc (and quite right too, as long as it is their choice).

But we have gone totally the other way - and probably too far. Cover your head, no problem - hide your face- not acceptable imho, in public.

Granny I don’t agree with a general ban but think in some professional interaction the burqa and the niqab should not be allowed.

suziewoozie I struggle with this, I have several Muslim friends, some wear a scarf with western modest clothes , some wear western clothes with no head covering apart from "family gatherings when they just drape the end of their sari over their heads.

My GC have a teacher who wears what I can only describe as a full scarf (covering head, neck and ears) along with trousers and long sleeved tops.

However the waiters/owners of our local "curry house" the majority of their wives wear the burqa and have little understanding of the English Language, they tend to stay with their own family groups and definitely do not interact/mix with the locals.

and that is the whole point- that they are prevented from making eye contact and have any interaction with the outside world. And that is wrong- and all my Muslim family and friends agree.

jura2 you are probably correct, but if it is banned will they be prisoners in their own homes?

Agreed, it is a difficult one. Working parties should be organised to discuss how it could at least be discouraged- and in which situations they should not be allowed. I certainly think kids should not wear them in school- and that all religious schools should be banned, including CofE.

I'm no Tory but Mrs May had the most toxic job in decades endeavoring to get a "deal"and I doubt if Mr Johnson even tries, he wants a "no deal" it's as plain as the nose on his face.

GG, Muslims come in all shapes , sizes and levels of adherence to their Holy book. Your curry house folk may be from rural Bangladesh or the Gujarat. Your middle class neighbour may from a middle class Pakistani background.

Obviously, I don't know, these are just ideas.

I think this idea of cowed women, hiding indoors is a myth. The Muslim women I have encountered have been confident and feisty. The burqa is out door clothing, once inside it is hung on a coat peg to reveal jeans and a T shirt ( in some cases)

Priti Patel is from a Gujarat background- family emigrated to Uganda and came to UK when Indians were kicked out by Idi Amin. They are mostly from very wealthy, well educated backgrounds- big business, legal, medical, etc.

Lessismore, I was making that exact point, apart from the women from Bangladesh, who are set in the old ways.

The men folk are happy to keep it that way, as it suits them. The Bangladeshi females I have encountered cannot be described as feisty or confident.

Does anyone get the feeling that things are in danger of spiralling out of control with Johnson.

He seems so unstable and incoherent, it is worrying.

Really Whitewave? I cannot stand to watch him or listen to him.

Things were spiralling out of control under Theresa May
Until there was no way she could carry on.
Things could go the same way with Johnson, but nobody can say that until he has been PM for a while....then he will be judged on what he has managed to accomplish ( or not accomplished.) A few days in, we have no idea.

I disagree mabon I think that Johnson does want a deal.
There are no doubt others in the Cabinet may not do.

Could you elaborate as to how you come to that conclusion?

Johnson is hostage to the ERG and the Brexit Party. I doubt he'll ever achieve a 'deal' that they would be satisfied with. He'll probably have just the same problems that May did.

And the EU won't renegotiate the WA. So where is he going to get a different deal from?

Pelosi and the Democrats in the USA have made it crystla clear that there will be NO Deal with them, whatever Trump says, unless the Irish border situation is solved in a way that protects Ireland and the GFA.

Yes jura......for a start, why on earth wouldn't he prefer to get a changed deal? He has said a lot of times that he would prefer to, and in this I do believe him, as getting the WA settled would be preferable all round.Some ERG members may want to leave without one, but by no means all ( and there are a lot of ERG members.)Also.....he has to get Parliament to agree on something.
All in all, I think he is hoping to get the deal changed enough to make it palatable to enough of Parliament.
I also think the EU want the same thing.
Is it do-able? Who knows.

OK, this is all conjecture, and we will have to agree to disagree on our own perception.

However, what changes do you think he could possibly expect the EU to make. Corbyn's 'cake and eat it, with icing, and unicorn on top'. There is NO was the position on the irish border can change for the EU- just as it can't for the USA, whatever Trump says. Democrats won't allow it, Pelosi has made it clear.

And there is NO way the EU can give the UK market exchange conditions which would give a member that has chosen to leave, much better conditions than its own. Plan, simple, common sense.

Highlights of the Johnson cabinet.

Prime Minister The one who lies about everything.
Chancellor. The one whose immigration policy would
exclude his dad.
Foreign. The one who hadn’t realised we were
surrounded by sea.
Home. The one who had to resign for abusing
her power.
Defence. The one sacked for leaking state secrets.
Health. The one who burnt principles for a job
DWP. The other one who burnt principles for
a job
Brexit. The one who failed in the job last time
Environment. The one who hates the environment
but loves fracking
Special Advisor. The one found in contempt of
parliament, and cheating in the
referendum.

I would like the Burkha and Nicab banned. You can't go in a shop in a hoody, who knows who is inside a garment that covers whole body and face. This weather it's inhuman to be covered, the men wouldn't do it, there is no religion that says the face and body are shameful, so hide it.
Regarding Johnson, I am waiting for his next big gaff. I think he comes over very well. As for leaving on 31 st. Boris has a habit of not doing what he says. The one to look out for in the future is Dominic Raab, I listened to him speak yesterday on the radio. We are in a pretty pickle. Labour are not viable until they shape up, why do they hang on to Jeremy, it doesn't make sense. However, things have a habit of working out and there's no alternative but to wait it out.

Whitewavemark. Your list should include every single person in either party with something detrimental about them, for example, Diane Abbots son going to the most exclusive, expensive public school, yet thinking the rest of the population should be state educated. You have to look at the bigger picture. Every one of them, tell me one that has never put a foot wrong and is a shining example, because we are all human, we make mistakes and hopefully learn from them, one bad deed does not make a bad person. I admire people of integrity who do what they say and live by their morals, but that's the ideal, we all fall short somewhere along the line.

Well said Peonyrose. The bias and one sided thinking shown on the political threads astonishes me - are people not taught by their parents, school or college to look at stuff rationally any more?

WWM2 wouldn’t like the Cabinet even if it was made up of the most saintlike characters you could wish for, clever, charming and all round wonderful...... because they are Conservatives. ?

Please feel free to do one, we can all do with a little light relief.