Westminster peaodophile ring, Nick, guilty of perverting course of justice and fraud

The fact that two out of three accusations of abuse do not result in anyone being found guilty by a court, does not, however, mean that the other two accusations were not true or were malicious. Historical accusations in particular are very difficult to investigate, and even harder to prove.
Just because this Carl Beech person made things up, we should not automatically go on to think or assert that therefore two out of three accusations are false.

The police didn’t have trouble investigating the victims of
Carl Beech

No they didn't but that is still no reason to take from that the assumption that 2 out of 3 claims are false.

I’d need to see the data behind the news story that annie heard on the news before I could comment. I’d start with definitions first of all. We also know that many cases are not reported but covered by those in positions of power . The Beech case tells us about the failings of the investigatory process which were legion and about naming before charging but not much else.

It's damn scary when the police can't tell the difference between lies and the truth !!

Accusers should be scrutinised before any names are mentioned as many accusers have an axe to grind, or are like this monster---just pure evil.

suziewoozie

"The Beech case tells us about the failings of the investigatory process which were legion and about naming before charging but not much else."
----

Not much else!

It tells us that some people will wilfully damage the lives of others.

It tells us some people will wilfully lie, cheat and propagate utter rubbish to score political points.

It tells us how people wilfully believe they can be as abusive, create an atmosphere of institutional wrong doing without one drop of evidence.

It tells us ' some ' police officers were totally so personally involved in accusations they did not perform their duties as a police officer.

It tells us Parliamentary Privilege can be used a tool/weapon to make false allegations and statements without redress.

I could go on.

Whether it be the likes of Christopher Jefferies, Politicians, indeed anybody there lives are destroyed by the Kangaroo Court Waller's who feast on believing the likes of Tom Watson et all. they deserve better.

How many stories of students that have been cleared of wrong doing , rape etc. have we read. If that were your son, husband, grandson would you still think ' not much else ' .

I understand all the periphery points such as victims coming forward, victims being put off etc. but this case had huge ramifications for those poor souls caught up in what to my mind was some sort of cabal of players who knew exactly what their lies were leading up to.

The fact Carl Beech was assisted by 'some' who hold positions of office / trust should not be dismissed as ' not much else ' in my book.

We cannot dismiss those accused yet innocent, lives ruined.

Who’s dismissing the accused innocent lives ruined annie? Sadly nothing can change the last, we can only do our best to lessen the chances of this happening again. I’ve said several times what has to change.
a) a neutral attitude by the police when a complaint is made to them
b) a complete black out on names being released - this should apply to the media as well as the police obviously
c) thorough and robust investigations to test the information given
d) a review of the CPS and its decision making re charging
e) a review of disclosure processes

Enduring it’s less likely to happen again will be the best thing that can be done now. People like Beech are really rare - I can’t remember another case of this magnitude involving such high profile figures- can anyone e,se?

The worst thing that could come out of this would be to deter future victims from coming forward by swinging the pendulum so far that all complainants are treated like Beech.

Ensuring

As a society we still have much to do to safeguard our children and young people. On a regular basis, information comes out of the IISSA which demonstrates how badly we have failed and are still failing so many vulnerable children and young people. Better systems will serve everyone - abused children and those accused falsely.

As for Tom Watson, he should be thoroughly ashamed of himself.

Ellenvannin what makes you believe that many accusers have an axe to grind rather than they might be telling the truth? Does it depend on the sort of person they are accusing?

There was a stage in the investigation of allegations of child sexual abuse where the mantra was 'believe the child'. That changed to listen carefully to the chid and take seriously what s/he says.
That was a significant change. I've never understood why the same guidance isn't used in allegations made by adults. I understand the need to support those making allegations but when fantastical allegations are being made, surely the person making those allegations should agree to their medical records being examined by an independent expert. If that had happened in this case, it would have stopped this investigation before further damage was done.

I don't agree that the accused should be named at the early stage. The courage it takes as an adult to go to the Police can't be under estimated. Inevitably, it means re-living abuse experiences, may re-trigger post traumatic stress disorder. Not every case needs an expert outsider to asses medical records, evidence etc but this one certainly did. anyone who is familiar with these kind of investigations will be aware that this level of abuse is rarely alleged.

I agree Iam64 That sounds a sensible way to proceed, rather than the reflex action of thinking that just because this man made things up that therefore two out of three accusations are made up.

A post by ilovecheese

‘The fact that two out of three accusations of abuse do not result in anyone being found guilty by a court, does not, however, mean that the other two accusations were not true or were malicious. Historical accusations in particular are very difficult to investigate, and even harder to prove.
Just because this Carl Beech person made things up, we should not automatically go on to think or assert that therefore two out of three accusations are false.’

So mud sticks , if allegations are made, the case dropped or
a not guilty verdict , they could still be guilty?

Well, yes they could. It is unfortunate and unfair that innocent people can have their reputation ruined, but it is also unfair to assume that 2 out of 3 accusations are lies.
I thought Iam64 made a very good post about how to proceed.

Unfortunate !

No smoke without fire !

Extracts

Sir Richard Henriques, a former High Court judge, says warrants to raid senior figures' homes were wrongly issued.

Henriques’s 2016 review of the Metropolitan police’s Operation Midland, which shut after 16 months without making a single arrest, highlighted 43 separate failings in the force’s investigation.

His review found that senior detectives fell for Beech’s “false allegations” and then misled a judge to get warrants to search the homes of innocent members of the establishment, distressing them and their loved ones.

Henriques said he stood by his findings, writing: “I concluded in my review – and maintain the opinion – that the three search warrants authorising the searches of the homes of Lord Bramall, Lady Brittan and Harvey Proctor were obtained unlawfully.”

The applications, he said, stated that Beech had remained consistent in his allegations. “Beech had not been consistent,” he wrote.

He said he was “unable to conclude that every officer acted with due diligence and in good faith” and claimed officers leading the inquiry were “fully aware” of six matters that undermined Beech’s credibility but that they were not disclosed to the district judge who granted the warrants."

“I concluded in 2016 – and I remain of the view – that the officers responsible for the three applications did not in fact fully believe that there were reasonable grounds to believe Beech’s allegations,”.

“the course of justice was perverted with shocking consequences”, adding: “A criminal investigation must surely follow.”

Knowingly misleading a district judge is far more serious than mere misconduct. The IOPC should in my judgment have investigated whether a criminal act had been committed, and if so by whom,” he wrote.

He also said there was “no explanation” from the IOPC “as to why the two most senior officers were exonerated without interview”.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/30/police-may-have-broken-law-during-carl-beech-investigation-ex-judge
--

The point of who / what influenced Carl Beech is too often either not understood or is not considered worthy of much comment. To me it is key as to how/why Carl Beech was able to manipulate the police who were at best gullable / unprofessional or at worst ' possibly ' willing players and politically motivated. I am sure there are Police Officers who rue the day they trusted those who were on the face of it ' possibly ' manipulating them too.

The no longer news site EXARO, Tom Watson using Parliamentary Privilege, Police Officers also stating the lies of Carl Beech were ' CREDIBLE and TRUE ' could be viewed as a form of conspiracy and the media/social media were sucked in by it all too.

The ' victims ' of Carl Beech did not stand a chance, there lives were ruined.

My problem is if the law has been broken by police officers, albeit those police officers have been found not guilty of misconduct, could Beech now cost the public more money by having a retrial somewhere along the lines on a technicality or some such issue. I have no idea just musing.

Thank you POGS

Seems it was just’ unfortunate’ for those accused, I still can’t
believe such suffering can be dismissed as such.

I don't see any real disagreement here about the damage caused by the poor police practice when investigating Beech's allegations.
I support the views expressed by ilovecheese in relation to false allegations. One of the biggest dangers as a result of poor police practice in the investigation of the fantastical allegations made by Carl Beech, is that genuine victims will be even more reluctant to come forward.
Anyone who has been involved in criminal justice can confirm that too few cases are reported and far too few ever reach the Courts. That's one of the reasons I remain puzzled that senior officers found this man believable when it now seems clear that the lower ranks making various applications, weren't convinced.
I can only assume that the lower ranks had more recent and direct involvement in the investigation of child sexual abuse/historical allegations.

Iam how can you accept that innocent people accused of these crimes are ‘unfortunate ‘ and it’s ‘unfair their reputations are ruined ?

Unfair ?

Anniebach, you may dislike the way I express myself but I don't see I've said anything that suggests I disregard the impact of false allegations on innocent people.
I'm also aware of the impact on genuine victims/survivors of the dreadful allegations Beech made and the way in which they were investigated.

Not arguing with you Iam , to me ‘unfortunate ‘ was a brutal dismissal of the suffering of the families . No more
to say on it. The police , as usual will not face prosecution and they should