Johnson and Brexit

Urmstongran 'the hated backstop'?

Hated by whom - ERG and their supporters, yes, for sure.
Although perhaps they love it- as they want, and have wanted from the start- No Deal - because any Deal with the EU will mean that the new directives on Tax Havens and Tax Evasion will have to stand. They know there is NO alternative for the Irish Border - and they are just looking for pegs to hang this on- and blame others. Hands up in the air- oh but we tried out best- EU being intransigeant (Raab and others are spouting this already)- not our fault ...

The back stop is not hated by the Democrats in the USA either, because of the Good Friday Agreement. Nor is it hated by the EU - as it is impossible to leave the EU and not have a border between EU and UK.

How is your grasp of Irish history UG?

Hammond,Gauke, Letwin, Clark,Grieve, Cooper And Starmer - members of the ‘Gaukeward Squad’.

Glum buckets, the lot of them

Well I heard the word had gone out from Brexit HQ to demonize these people and there we go; the propaganda machine is working well. Of course, you're only following orders Urmstongran. So that's okay.

If we Leave on No Deal, the Irish ‘backstop’ doesn’t exist does it? It only twists and turns us if we try for a deal.

Over to you then Varadkar and Juncker.

What you gonna do about it?

'If we Leave on No Deal, the Irish ‘backstop’ doesn’t exist does it?'

I am sorry, but comments like this really do make me wonder which planet you live on I will stop there or I may well say things that GN will just have to delete.

You are of course correct- there would be 'no backstop'

but you can't say that without explaining what will be there instead. So could you please explain how the Irish/UK border in NI would work. Thank you.

There was a fascinating programme on BBC4 last night called 'The Joy of Winning'. Now, it wasn't necessarily about politics but it very much reminded me [in a chilling way] what is happening with Brexit. This is part of a review of what it contained..'.Deploying 'The Joys of...' films' trademark mix of playful animation alongside both oddball demos and contributions from the world's biggest brains, Fry shows how this field of maths - known as game theory - is the essential key to help you get your way. She reveals ways to analyse any situation, and methods of calculating the consequences of getting what you want. Expect tips on taking advantage of what your opponents do, but also pleasing proof that cooperation might get you further than conflict. Fry also hails the 20th-century scientists like John von Neumann and John Nash who worked out the science of success. They may not be household names, but they transformed economics, politics, psychology and evolutionary biology in the process - and their work, Hannah demonstrates, could even be shown to prove the existence and advantage of goodness.' It said that a book by von Neumann is probably the most influential book on politics but is probably the least read. I only caught some of the programme but think I need to watch it all....

jura, I hope you're very patient because I doubt whether any response will be forthcoming. There was a post a couple of days ago saying this was a problem for the Irish not the UK. That poster seemed to have forgotten that most people in Northern Ireland regard themselves as British. Surely we are all of an age to remember the situation in Northern Ireland before the GFA (or maybe there really are people who don't care).

I see you've already made the same point, Lessismore. The answer to your question is obvious. ;-)

Thank you jura2 for the acknowledgment that my statement was correct.

It’s a start.

Us Leavers get tarred with the ‘thick/stupid’ brush too often.

It's not surprising, really, is it?

?

And thank you for responding with this comment 'Thank you jura2 for the acknowledgment that my statement was correct.' ...

you have however totally forgotten to explain what will be in place if there is no backstop. I'm sure it is just an oversight- but as it is of paramount importance, I'll have to ask again.

How will the Irish EU border work with non EU UK/NI border. Please (and thank you in advance).

I expect your are very busy and do not have time right now to respond to this pressing and massively important question- so I will endeavour to be very patient. But would be very grateful for a thorough description as to how the border would work, in practice.

me too.

Jura are you seriously asking “One of us” for a detailed solution to the Irish backstop problem?
Might I respectfully suggest that if a cageful of monkeys/a committee of experienced Civil Servants and a posse of politicians can’t provide one, it is not really practicable to expect a “non- professional” to come up with a bigger and better version of the thousand page document, or whatever it is. “Too busy” doesn’t come close.
On the other hand, if any present company has the magic answer, perhaps Boris et al should be beating a path to her door.

Maybe Johnson is doing just that as we speak Mawbroonsback? Maybe The Minister in charge of destroying the economy Brexit. i.e the honourable Michael Gove has been alerted to the expertise on GN by his wife Sarah Vine? After all, it is all so simple, forget tortuous talks with the EU or the Taiesoch (sp?), just send an email to the experts on here and they will explain it all. And send a few cheers and good wishes for success at the same time turkeys voting for Xmas, as they look forward to wartime spirit. I note that the unicorns and sunny uplands are little mentioned at the moment.

I suppose Maw, if a poster makes generalised , sweeping statements in a slightly gung ho manner, it's not unreasonable to ask for a bit of information.

I have been reading up on Ireland and the backstop....it's complicated and rooted in history. I believe Cameron didn't think the referendum would go the way it did and the power s that be had " forgotten " Ireland....again.

Gosh Gill, that's a nifty bit of crossing out words going on there! Very 90s!

What on earth does that mean Minnie because it sounds a bit like a snidey comment to me?

No one is expecting Urmstongran to come up with her own solution. However, it seems the Leave-with-no-deal crowd believe there will be no problems. Ergo someone, somewhere, must have convinced them of the solution. All that is being ask is that they explain it to those of us who didn't get the memo. No one wants to go back to a troubled Ireland obviously, so the solution must have been found.

Maw, no of course, I would not dream of asking members of GN to solve the crisis we find ourselves in now. And certainly not the very complex issues around the Irish/UK border in NI.

But Urmstongran has made this comment- which truly requires an explanation as to what the alternative would be, and how it would work, don't you agree?

'*If we Leave on No Deal, the Irish ‘backstop’ doesn’t exist does it? *'

I see Urmstongran is active on the Forum elsewhere- so is not busy elsewhere- thus it seems she is choosing to ignore the question.

Why thank you Minniemoo, I cross out aim to please!

Jura2. Just curious, what is it about Urmstongran that you feel to you have to hound and bully for an answer/solution to the backstop? Don’t you have anything better to do? It really is pathetic. Drop your superior attitude and move on.