Boris and Cambridge Analytica

Jane 10, whether I 'like' Boris or not, has surely nothing to do with the current situation. Both.

Do you believe that Johnson should be allowed to refuse to answer, in contempt of HoC and MPs, and us - questions asked of him in the House- and get away with it?
The same question needs to be asked, agai, and again, and again, and again some more- in the House, and by all Journalists and people in the street- until he answers- as it is of vital significance -as is Cummings all over Johnson and the Cabinet at the moment.

Liberal Democrat MP Leila Moran writes-

"The appointment of Dominic Cummings should send shivers down the spines of UK citizens. This is a man who has peddled lies and flouted the truth for sheer, cynical political gain. The dark arts that he proffers should have no place in Government, and no place in Downing Street.

That is why I have written to Cabinet Secretary Sir Mark Sedwill calling on him to block the appointment of Dominic Cummings as an Advisor to Boris Johnson on grounds of suitability. My letter cites that Cummings has previously been found in contempt of parliament for refusing to attend a Select Committee and highlights a track record of dubious behaviour in relation to leaked documents and unsubstantiated campaign claims during the EU referendum.

If Boris Johnson is serious about uniting our country, then appointing one of the most divisive figures in politics is hardly the best start. Boris Johnson needs to act like a Prime Minister, and not be the puppeteer of someone who has so little respect for the British people."

"Russian government used Facebook in the USA. They targeted individuals by using their personal data and fed them fake news stories.

Stoking fear and hate to turn the country against itself
Divide and conquer."
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"The issue that needs to be recognised though is not simple advertising etc, it is actual manipulation of the voter as took place in Trinidad and Tobago, the USA and the UK. amongst others so far identified.

And where it is used to stir up racial hatred and division, it is not a case of advertising it is far more sinister and a real threat to democracy"
--

"The FBI and Muller have proven that particular persuadable groups were identified by Russia, who used social media to swing the election. Russia flooded social media with false information before the election, enough to convince these persuadables to vote in a particular way."
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Heavens above we have had copious amounts of threads/posts for years that have raised the point fake news/misinformation/ Russian bots/propaganda links etc. etc. are facts we should all be aware of. It's old news.

I have asked several times if Russia is known to have meddled in the US/French/German etc. etc. elections why have we in the UK not accepted our own UK 2017 General Election would have been an obvious target too. Russia would have every reason to want to try and get a government sympathetic toward Russia. Why not?

As for Facebook /Cambridge Analytica it was the breaking of the story and scale that was the issue. There is a film on NETFLIX called the GREAT HACK I would like to watch.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49085306

It is a fact that ALL parties are ' harvesting ' Information. If you think the party you support is not targeting you if you are a member, on twitter/Facebook etc. you are simply shutting off from reality.

The reason the internet / social media is free is because YOU ARE THEIR SOURCE/ THEIR COMMODITY to produce political propaganda, sell products, whatever and to whom ever.

You are mistaken if you believe the Cambridge Analytica/Vote Leave mix is the only show in town. Your details are held by various politically parties, countries, businesses and they cannot be stopped.

To rage about one incident and not another is futile and lacks understanding of the Big Brother existence we ALL belong to. Yes, the genie is out of the box and out of our control but if we as individuals want to use the technology of the internet how will it ever be stopped.?

Russia would have every reason to want to try and get a government sympathetic toward Russia. Why not?

We already had a government sympathetic to Russia, h*POGS*; the tories. They are heavily funded by Russian oligarchs and the London property market is kept buoyant by Russian billionaires looking for a safe place to stash their gains from the breakup of the USSR.

The break up of the EU being a Russian objective their job was done in 2016 when the UK voted to leave the EU.

I have no idea about Russian meddling in other EU states but I wouldn't be surprised if they were supporting some of the rightwing populist parties. They've certainly got fingers in the pies of ours.

Maybe you are correct MaizieD but at least the present government defends our Security Services before Putin. Others appear to defend Putin come what may until there is no way to continue with doing so.

Labour will always be the Party the Russian government under a Communist state will choose. The Russian government has nothing in common with the Conservative Party.

The point is Russia is known for it's meddling/bots and irrespective of our political persuasion why is the question never asked did Russia have any influence over over 2017 General Election, that is not partisan it is a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

Oh yes, Corbyn is their friend (Russia) remember the Salisbury poisonings!

Russia is no longer a Communist state POGS and has not been since the fall of the USSR.

Putin is a populist and nationalist whose aim is to destabilise the west by subverting democracy and promoting authoritarian right wing regimes by covert means.

His two notable successes in 2016 were Trump and brexit.

"Russia is no longer a Communist state"
----
Intrigued. What label would you give to the politics of Russia varian?

Capitalist
Democratic
Liberal
Another

Putin is an authoritarian leader, but Russia is no longer communist.

An Interview with Steve Bannon has confirmed that Johnson has thought about it for a very long time 'that a hard Brexit No Deal is the best option' - encouraged by Trump. That was of course the aim of ERG right from the start.

So growstuff didn’t communism work? After all those years of finessing it, practicing it @nd pushing it around the world - it was a failure?

What's that got to do with anything?

Your last comment last night on this thread growstuff. Why would Russian stop being communist after all those years? Maybe the system wasn’t working? Or perhaps they weren’t proper communists?

growstuff

'Russia is no longer communist.'
-

Then I will ask you the same question:-

Intrigued. What label would you give to the politics of Russia growstuff.

Capitalist
Democratic
Liberal
Another

To rage about one incident and not another is futile and lacks understanding of the Big Brother existence we ALL belong to

A sensible post as always, POGS.

Can we also redefine 'populist' as the left use it as a term to smear regimes they hate.

It means it appeals to the population, and as long as we have democracy we will have populism.

Because we have Trump and Boris and Brexit the left hold up their hands in dismay that 'the common people' choose to vote differently from them. It says more about left wing politics that populism is affecting elections all over Europe.

I am sure the left can blame Putin for that manipulation too. <eye roll >

For the second time, Day6. I've posted this before quite recently. Perhaps you missed it.

In politics, populism refers to a range of approaches which emphasise the role of "the people" and often juxtapose this group against "the elite". There is no single definition of the term, which developed in the 19th century and has been used to mean various different things since that

The term populism came into use in the late 19th century alongside the promotion of democracy. In the United States, it was closely associated with the People's Party, while in the Russian Empire it was linked to the agrarian socialist Narodnik movement. In the 1960s the term became increasingly popular among social scientists in Western countries, and later in the 20th century it was applied to various political parties active in liberal democracies. In the 21st century, the term became increasingly common in political discourse, particularly in the Americas and Europe, to describe a range of left-wing, right-wing, and centrist groups that challenged the established parties. When in office in liberal democracies, populists have often been responsible for democratic backsliding – also called "democratic erosion" or "de-democratization" – as they undermine independent institutions like the media or judiciary which they consider hostile to the "will of the people ".[1

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism

Populism can be of the right or the left.

Note the last paragraph in bold. This is what is happening in the US and here in the UK.

I don't quite understand why growstuff is being interrogated as if s/he were a communist or a communist apologist.

I'm also surprised that POGS didn't seem to know that Russia has not been a communist state since the 1980s. It is supposedly a democracy now though it appears to me to be more like an autocracy.

It supposedly runs a market economy. Lots of stuff about it here:

duckduckgo.com/?q=Russia%27s+economic+system&t=chromentp&ia=web

Maizie d

" I don't quite understand why growstuff is being interrogated as if s/he were a communist or a communist apologist."
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Pathetic!

What is 'pathetic', POGS?

Two rather aggressive sounding posts from Pantglas at 11.49 and 15.31 demanding that growstuff explain why communism didn't work, for all the world as though gs had been defending communism. When all s/he did was point out that Russia is no longer communist. Don't you think that's a bit weird?

maizie very interesting point about the way populism de-democratises by undermining the various independent institutions.

I was struck by Bannon criticising the British civil service recently, and of course the Daily Mail constantly criticises the judiciary and civil service.

Farage has also recently done the same and the latest to join the cacophony is Cummings and some prominent Tories.

In the U.K. it has always been the tradition NOT to criticise these institutions as they are recognised as part of the foundations of our respected and world recognised democratic institutions.

The populists amongst us appear to want to destroy something of which we can be justly proud.

Every British citizen is equal before the law, how long would that last if the judiciary was politicised?

Every civil servant can speak truth to power, how long would that last if it was politicised?

Populism is a scourge and must be defeated.

If you think two of my posts are rather aggressive towards growstuff, MaizieD, check out the ones attacking Lemongrove on other political threads! Or will you not comment on those because you agree with those posters?

What??!!

I hadn't even registered who lemongrove was until she(?) started accusing me of following her and threatened me.

Pathetic!

PS. Thank you, Maizie. You're correct. I pointed out that Russia is no longer considered Communist...and, for the record, I most certainly don't think Communism is a solution to anything, so I couldn't possibly defend it.

So why I seem to be the object of such aggression, I'm not quite sure.

POGS, I'm no expert on political labelling and I've already described Russia as I see it.

After some years of trying to liberalise the country, Putin has reintroduced authoritarian policies, but they're not Communist.

So what's the problem? From my perspective, it seems like ganging up and demanding something I have already done.